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Thread: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

  1. #71
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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    And it takes a special kind of child to go off on a tantrum without any idea what they're talking about.
    I still haven't figured out what point Telerun was trying to make. Confusing post. Maybe I need more coffee....

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Absolutely. When it is someone ELSES kid...well...he believes what he believes. When it becomes HIS kid...well...now...let me examine that...huh...OK...I changed my mind.
    I mean...come on...at least Obama changed his mind to earn campaign cash and votes.

    I have no problem with someone taking a good hard look at their belief system..challenging said belief system, and even changing their mind. Thats a good thing. My opinion on abortion and the death penalty has changed after debate and some consideration. But this is tantamount to a death bed confession.
    It's a strange day when I agree with Vance. The man never gave a crap about equal rights before. Worse, he actively worked against it, and only now that it affects his life does he turn around. I'll give him a little credit for being capable of changing his mind, but I'm not about to sing the praises of a man with his voting record. Maybe he'll redeem himself by actively working towards equality. As a Republican in Ohio, doing so wouldn't necessarily be a political death sentence.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'm not making any assumptions - I simply took the man at his word, based on his statements.

    I don't disagree with your sentiments - it's a major reason why I'm no longer a practicing Catholic. However, it is still my view that, as Senator Portman stated himself, he changed his position on gay marriage after his son disclosed he is gay. As such, that makes him, in my view, unfit to be President or Vice-President. A person in the highest leadership positions does not make decisions affecting hundreds of millions of people based on the dynamic of his or her family life. I'm sure his son isn't the first person who told Portman he was gay and expressed a desire for equality in marriage. Is Portman's son "special" in a public policy sense or just special because he's Portman's son? Does Portman's son have other "special" public policy positions that dad will acquire based on his relationship?

    I suppose, to follow your logic, if Portman was President and a relative of his, perhaps his son, was kidnapped by terrorists, it would be okay to change the US position on negotiating with terrorists and maybe release all Islamic prisoners. After all, he's just "reevaluating" his "view/thought/actions/ideas" based on his personal experiences.

    Perhaps to you it may sound callous - if so, you're not fit to be President either - when you run for the highest public office, personal family dynamics do not rule public policy.
    I suggest less Sturm und Drang is in order. The question is not some great policy decision but whether one Senator supports gay marriage. Senator Portman is entitled to the benefit of the doubt whether he would, if he were POTUS, approach a great public policy decision differently. On questions like gay rights and abortion many people form their personal opinions based on real life experiences and relationships, and I'm not sure that's not healthier than slavish adherence to abstract principle.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    I still haven't figured out what point Telerun was trying to make. Confusing post. Maybe I need more coffee....
    Good morning Lady P - should I send over a couple of the cherry/strawberry tarts I just finished baking?

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Good morning Lady P - should I send over a couple of the cherry/strawberry tarts I just finished baking?
    Good morning to you, CJ.

    .... You never have to ask when it comes to sweets!

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I suggest less Sturm und Drang is in order. The question is not some great policy decision but whether one Senator supports gay marriage. Senator Portman is entitled to the benefit of the doubt whether he would, if he were POTUS, approach a great public policy decision differently. On questions like gay rights and abortion many people form their personal opinions based on real life experiences and relationships, and I'm not sure that's not healthier than slavish adherence to abstract principle.
    Good afternoon 2M - I stand by my comments, particularly considering the context in which Senator Portman made his comments and his direct association to the current case before the Supreme Court related to California's Proposition 8 - that makes it a relevant policy issue and not just a personal one.

    People seem to think that I somehow don't support gay marriage simply because I don't support Senator Portman's decision that gay marriage was bad until his son wanted to marry his gay partner, now it's good. I never had a problem with it - moreover, I don't think the government should be involved in any marriage - gay, straight, polygamy or whatever anyone else can think up.

    The sooner governments got out of the business of socially engineering society through tax and benefit policy based on the "status" of a citizen's personal dynamic, the better off society will be.

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Good afternoon 2M - I stand by my comments, particularly considering the context in which Senator Portman made his comments and his direct association to the current case before the Supreme Court related to California's Proposition 8 - that makes it a relevant policy issue and not just a personal one.

    People seem to think that I somehow don't support gay marriage simply because I don't support Senator Portman's decision that gay marriage was bad until his son wanted to marry his gay partner, now it's good. I never had a problem with it - moreover, I don't think the government should be involved in any marriage - gay, straight, polygamy or whatever anyone else can think up.

    The sooner governments got out of the business of socially engineering society through tax and benefit policy based on the "status" of a citizen's personal dynamic, the better off society will be.
    I believe the Senator has every right to arrive at his view by whatever path he wishes.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I believe the Senator has every right to arrive at his view by whatever path he wishes.
    Indeed - I never suggested otherwise.

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    This would mean a whole lot more if he could do the right thing without his own family having to be affected by it.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: GOP senator reverses gay-marriage stance after son comes out

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    This would mean a whole lot more if he could do the right thing without his own family having to be affected by it.
    In my experience most people make their decisions about questions like this based on personal experiences and relationships. Beyond the absolutism of forums like this, that's how real life is lived.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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