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Thread: Food-stamp use doubles

  1. #321
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Good for you. It's a good philosophy and certainly not a platitude.
    Well you generally don't ask someone to provide a platitude so I provided the guiding philosophy behind my views.

    The whole idea of telling someone poor, probably working a fulltime job or 2 they need to have vision and ambition is pretty meaningless. It's pretty condescending..."oh ****...if only I had a little more vision I wouldn't be working hard for peanuts".
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Unfortunately neither you or I can decide what is good and right in this world as far as a persons value is concerned. Whenever we hire someone we are hiring them in the expectation that we will profit from their labors, thought not necessarily in financial sense. If that profit, or satisfaction, isn't there than we will simply not hire them. You'd probably react the same way if someone said they wanted you to pay them more than you felt they were worth. Therefore its not a matter of good or bad but of value.
    You are partially right. It is not up to you and I to decide, it is up to all consumers. But you and I are included in that. Of course when we hire someone we are going to profit from their labors. You cannot find anywhere where I said differently. Making a generic statement like that doesnt change the working conditions or exploitation that happens around the world. A fair analogy here would be to take a man who is starving. Eventually he will become more and more desperate for that food. You can probably get him to do anything you want for a piece of bread. He would probably work for you all day for that bread. The man is getting something in his stomach that he desperately needs, but does that make it ok for you to exploit him?

    Not at all. You compete by having a better educated and motivated work force. The better treatment a person receives the more likely they are to respond with benefits to the employer. Most successful employers know and understand that. It is counterproductive to mistreat good employees.
    In a good environment where people have choices this may be a true statement. But this is becoming less and less true. Many employers dont give a **** about their employees. Whatever it is you do for work, it doesnt matter what it is, put an ad up in the paper, craigslist or anywhere saying you are hiring. You will get hundreds of applicants. People will line up for the chance. Many of them qualified and over qualified for it. Your employer will replace you, quickly, without hesitation and it will mean nothing to them. No matter how pissed you are about your benefits, there are people so desperate by our job market they will work for half of what you were getting and none of the benefits.
    No.
    If I misunderstood, explain to me what you meant.
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  3. #323
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well you generally don't ask someone to provide a platitude so I provided the guiding philosophy behind my views.

    The whole idea of telling someone poor, probably working a fulltime job or 2 they need to have vision and ambition is pretty meaningless. It's pretty condescending..."oh ****...if only I had a little more vision I wouldn't be working hard for peanuts".
    It is easier to blame the poor for being poor than it is to see how our spending habits and selfishness contribute toward it. A lot of people love being pissed about entitlements, but they feel they are entitled to cheap labor and they feel they are entitled to exploit the poor and desperate for their gains.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  4. #324
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It's not that you need minor children to qualify it's just that the number of dependents you have is taken into consideration. Raising yourself on 14,000 a year is drastically different than raising yourself and a depedent on the same salary don't you agree?

    Ultimately...what do you advocate ttwtt? No minimum wage (force employees to pay livable wage) and no assistance? I could see being for one and not the other, no minimum wage but government assistance to balance out or minimum wage that's a livable wage but no assistance. Having neither though?
    I advocate no federal income based assistance for any able bodied adult. Unlike the federal gov't, that depends on borrowing over $3 billion per day, states would (could?) not be nearly so generous (foolish?) as to simply support those that can (will?) not support themselves. Working to support oneself (and any dependents) should not be simply an "option" for any non-disabled person. Since the introduction of the federal "great society" social programs of the 1960's the out of wedlock birthrate has soared such that now 30% of white, 50% of hispanic and 70% of black children are now born out of wedlock. This may be great for getting demorat votes, but hurts the nation as a whole. We, as a nation, cannot continue to support 46 million people with federal income "assistance" until "things get better".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well you generally don't ask someone to provide a platitude so I provided the guiding philosophy behind my views.

    The whole idea of telling someone poor, probably working a fulltime job or 2 they need to have vision and ambition is pretty meaningless. It's pretty condescending..."oh ****...if only I had a little more vision I wouldn't be working hard for peanuts".
    What's true is that some people don't have vision, or ambition, and allow their lives to drift. They will always be with us, and there is little anyone can do about it. In a free country you get to live your life your own way and we should not be condemned unless we behave immorally or illegally. I have poor people working for ma at this very moment, but they are certainly not unhappy. Quite the opposite in fact.

    You don't have to be rich or poor to be happy but some people have allowed envy to take over their lives, and unhappiness inevitably follows.

  6. #326
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What's true is that some people don't have vision, or ambition, and allow their lives to drift. They will always be with us, and there is little anyone can do about it. In a free country you get to live your life your own way and we should not be condemned unless we behave immorally or illegally. I have poor people working for ma at this very moment, but they are certainly not unhappy. Quite the opposite in fact.

    You don't have to be rich or poor to be happy but some people have allowed envy to take over their lives, and unhappiness inevitably follows.
    You cant be happy if you or your family is starving or freezing.
    In a free country you get to live your life your own way and we should not be condemned unless we behave immorally or illegally.
    Immorally huh? Do you mean immoral as in exploiting the poor for your profit?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Sure...and what's the conservative answer to your statement? Let them make 5 dollars an hour and try and survive on that?
    No, let them get the training they need, take responsibility for themselves, and develop a work ethic.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #328
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    It is easier to blame the poor for being poor than it is to see how our spending habits and selfishness contribute toward it. A lot of people love being pissed about entitlements, but they feel they are entitled to cheap labor and they feel they are entitled to exploit the poor and desperate for their gains.
    A free man can only be "exploited" if he allows himself to be such.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    A free man can only be "exploited" if he allows himself to be such.
    When you are hungry or cold, or your kids or family are, you will allow yourself to be.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    You cant be happy if you or your family is starving or freezing.
    Quite right.


    Immorally huh? Do you mean immoral as in exploiting the poor for your profit?
    I'm against anyone being exploited. I suppose you are too.

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