Page 3 of 55 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 548

Thread: Food-stamp use doubles

  1. #21
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,664

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Exactly. As I showed in another thread discussing social democracies, the Scandinavian model of setting a "living" wage has only led to a cost of living in those countries up to 70% higher than the US.

    Give everyone a million dollars and bread would cost a grand. Progress!
    Yep. It all looks so good and fair on paper, yet who would be a construction worker, exposed to hard work outside when the same "wages" are offered for a nice safe, comfortable McJob or Walmart greeter position? Doctor = McWorker = lawyer = carpenter = truck driver = waiter teacher = chef = farmer = CEO; they all get that same gov't defined "living wage" and will accept and like it because it is "fair".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    The darkside of the moon
    Last Seen
    05-24-14 @ 05:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,905
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    If you want to fix SNAP you need to make it more like WIC. The more you limit the food to only items with nutritional value the less beneficial it will be to those people who don't need it, while still allowing those who do need it to be able to get the benefit. Oh, and are people in this thread suggesting people commute from NY to washington to pick apples? I am not sure what they pay apple pickers in washington, but I am pretty sure it would not even cover gas for one way. It would make more sense for NY people to pick apples in NY orchards, but if you are going to make an absurd argument i guess it works. Oh, and SNAP is only 200 dollars of edible items a month max. It is not really lobster and filet mignon for recipients. The areas you really want to hit if you are going after wasteful social assistance are TANF and social security disability. Also, using people who receive food stamps for doing jobs that could employ someone at minimum wage just eliminates jobs. it is a terrible idea that would destroy many more lives because people would be happy to pay a person 200 dollars a month in food rather than a real wage with some benefits.

    Do you guys even think of the end product of your solutions? have you even educated yourself on what you are actually talking about?

  3. #23
    Advisor WWGWD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Last Seen
    07-01-13 @ 11:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    425

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    I have read this thread through, and I'm confused. Not about the opinions and ideas expressed, that all makes sense, but more why the bigger picture doesn't seem to be a factor. The increase in the recipients is over a decade. A decade ago, or economy was in a TOTALLY different place. Of course more people are on food stamps, when you look at what has happened to the middle class. The economy crashed, millions of jobs were lost and an equal number lost their savings. The housing market crashed, and millions of people went into forclosure and eventually lost their homes. Of course there is going to be an exponential increase in the number of people seeking assistance.

    How that situation gets rectified, and dealt with is one thing. But deciding the policy of foodstamps itself is to blame, seems ludacris to me without taking into account any of the extenuating circumstances. Why not focus less on changing all of the mechanics of the program, and focus a little more attention on the root problem causing so many new people to apply for governement assistance?
    "....The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty...." -Jefferson 1787

  4. #24
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep. It all looks so good and fair on paper, yet who would be a construction worker, exposed to hard work outside when the same "wages" are offered for a nice safe, comfortable McJob or Walmart greeter position? Doctor = McWorker = lawyer = carpenter = truck driver = waiter teacher = chef = farmer = CEO; they all get that same gov't defined "living wage" and will accept and like it because it is "fair".
    But the same wages are not. Minimum wage is still well below those professions. But let me ask you this: how do you value labor? In the 80's, I make $3.50 an hour (and was only paid for 10 of every 24 hours I worked) as a paramedic. At the time, the person hold the stop sign at the construction job made $10 an hour. If you needed emergency care, how much would I be worth?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #25
    Sage
    Visbek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:38 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,017

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    While I agree that increased food stamp recipients is a bad thing, I really don't see why this is a death knell for the US.

    Among other things:

    • NYC has a balanced budget -- despite the increase in food stamp spending. In fact, NYC's budget is required by law to balance, and surpluses are held to cover for future deficits. Does YOUR city or state do that? (Answer: Almost certainly not. Few cities or states require balanced budgets.)


    • New York State pays more in federal tax revenues than it receives in services. Does YOUR state do that? (Answer: 50% of states pay more than they receive. Many so-called "red" states like KY, VA, AL, LA, AZ etc receive significantly more funding than they pay back in taxes.)


    • Public assistance and SSI have been flat in NYC for years:




    • The benefits aren't that generous. 1 person gets $200 a month, or $50 a week, or $6 a day, or $2 per meal. Helpful as a supplement, difficult if that's all you've got. Ever try to live off of $6 a day? We're talking beans and rice, not steak and lobster.

    And food can cost 10-20% more in NYC than in many other cities. So go on, take the Food Stamp Challenge! See if you can live off of a food budget of $180 a week. Maybe we can make a fad diet out of it, 'cause you will almost certainly lose some weight.


    • The cutoff for food stamps in NYC is (iirc) around $14,000/year. Due to the cost of living, if you live in Brooklyn, that's the equivalent of $8,000/yr in Dallas or Kansas City, or $9,500 in Chicago.


    • Bloomberg is a social moderate and an environmentalist, but a fiscal conservative.

    In fact, one of the ways NYC saves a lot of money is by focusing on the kinds of environmental issues which reduce the city's energy costs.


    So again, while I do see increases in food stamps as a bad thing, and hope it will drop back to normal rates as the economy picks up, it sounds an awful lot like the heathens of NYC are still keeping their budget much more in line than most other cities, that other forms of assistance haven't increased anywhere near as much, and the benefits are not especially generous.

    I.e. unless the mere mention of "food stamps" makes you break out in hives, I don't see why this is anything more than an indicator that NYC and the US are still dealing with the effects of the recession.

  6. #26
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    While I agree that increased food stamp recipients is a bad thing, I really don't see why this is a death knell for the US.

    Among other things:

    • NYC has a balanced budget -- despite the increase in food stamp spending. In fact, NYC's budget is required by law to balance, and surpluses are held to cover for future deficits. Does YOUR city or state do that? (Answer: Almost certainly not. Few cities or states require balanced budgets.)


    • New York State pays more in federal tax revenues than it receives in services. Does YOUR state do that? (Answer: 50% of states pay more than they receive. Many so-called "red" states like KY, VA, AL, LA, AZ etc receive significantly more funding than they pay back in taxes.)


    • Public assistance and SSI have been flat in NYC for years:




    • The benefits aren't that generous. 1 person gets $200 a month, or $50 a week, or $6 a day, or $2 per meal. Helpful as a supplement, difficult if that's all you've got. Ever try to live off of $6 a day? We're talking beans and rice, not steak and lobster.

    And food can cost 10-20% more in NYC than in many other cities. So go on, take the Food Stamp Challenge! See if you can live off of a food budget of $180 a week. Maybe we can make a fad diet out of it, 'cause you will almost certainly lose some weight.


    • The cutoff for food stamps in NYC is (iirc) around $14,000/year. Due to the cost of living, if you live in Brooklyn, that's the equivalent of $8,000/yr in Dallas or Kansas City, or $9,500 in Chicago.


    • Bloomberg is a social moderate and an environmentalist, but a fiscal conservative.

    In fact, one of the ways NYC saves a lot of money is by focusing on the kinds of environmental issues which reduce the city's energy costs.


    So again, while I do see increases in food stamps as a bad thing, and hope it will drop back to normal rates as the economy picks up, it sounds an awful lot like the heathens of NYC are still keeping their budget much more in line than most other cities, that other forms of assistance haven't increased anywhere near as much, and the benefits are not especially generous.

    I.e. unless the mere mention of "food stamps" makes you break out in hives, I don't see why this is anything more than an indicator that NYC and the US are still dealing with the effects of the recession.
    And if this s the case, then I would have no real concerns.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #27
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,193

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What a failure progressive policy is....



    Just remember who to blame when this all collapses....
    I'm surprised. You know, Super Big Gulps aren't all that expensive and I hear they're filling and fatten you up so if there is a problem with lack of nourishment in NYC, let's give them all a free frequent customer card at 7-11 and let the good times roll.

  8. #28
    Sage
    pbrauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    11-27-15 @ 03:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,394

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What a failure progressive policy is....



    Just remember who to blame when this all collapses....
    The reason for the food stamps is because of the DEEP recession that began under President Bush and gradually is getting better under President Obama.



    Bureau of Labor Statistics Data


    1-Month Net Change
    Series Id: CES0000000001
    Seasonally Adjusted
    Super Sector: Total nonfarm
    Industry: Total nonfarm
    NAICS Code: -
    Data Type: ALL EMPLOYEES, THOUSANDS


    Download:
    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    2003 89 -158 -215 -51 -10 -3 20 -44 105 197 13 119
    2004 159 43 333 247 306 78 37 125 155 343 65 128
    2005 130 240 135 362 168 246 372 192 65 81 335 158
    2006 274 316 280 181 21 80 210 179 159 -3 205 169
    2007 234 90 186 76 141 80 -35 -24 77 86 111 93
    2008 14 -85 -79 -215 -186 -169 -216 -270 -459 -472 -775 -705
    2009 -794 -695 -830 -704 -352 -472 -351 -210 -233 -170 -21 -220
    2010 -13 -40 154 229 521 -130 -86 -37 -43 228 144 95
    2011 69 196 205 304 115 209 78 132 225 166 174 230
    2012 311 271 205 112 125 87 153 165 138 160 247 219
    2013 119(P) 236(P)
    P : preliminary


  9. #29
    Sage
    Visbek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:38 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,017

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep. It all looks so good and fair on paper, yet who would be a construction worker, exposed to hard work outside when the same "wages" are offered for a nice safe, comfortable McJob or Walmart greeter position?
    Apparently, quite a few people.

    Some social policies do increase unemployment; e.g. worker protections in France have almost certainly increased unemployment, especially for the youth (since an employer who hires a 25 year old could be stuck with him for a decade or more).

    Others, however, show little sign of spelling the doom of a nation. Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Finland, the Netherlands all have flatter income distribution than the US, but this has not caused their economies collapse.

    I would agree that making wages completely flat would require highly inefficient policies. However, old-school socialists of that stripe are pretty rare these days -- even in NYC.

  10. #30
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,664

    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But the same wages are not. Minimum wage is still well below those professions. But let me ask you this: how do you value labor? In the 80's, I make $3.50 an hour (and was only paid for 10 of every 24 hours I worked) as a paramedic. At the time, the person hold the stop sign at the construction job made $10 an hour. If you needed emergency care, how much would I be worth?
    Nice chat, but that ignores the point that I made. If the minimum wage worker is given $300/month in tax free food stamps then they get $1200/month in paychecks plus free food for $1500/month total pay, or effectively a 25% "pay raise", over the minimum wage worker that does not qualify for those food stamps.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

Page 3 of 55 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •