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Thread: Food-stamp use doubles

  1. #211
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by WWGWD View Post
    My guess, is that it's really hard to distinguish sometimes the difference between conservative values, and conservative politics, which is what makes someone Republican (I'm totally generalizing here, I know that, lol). The conclusion of that paper had an intersting quote that I think applies to this discussion:



    I think, and this is totally my opinion, that the values mentioned in that quote, becoming the driving force for the party you support. In general, those are the values of the Republican party, so it would make sense that that is the party that draws the support of the wealthy. With that, comes the GOP establishments additional values, of dismantling and defunding a lot of assistance programs. Not because they don't want them (though some do), but because they are inefficient and expensive. The problem I have found with that sort of an approach, is that it doesn't fix the problem of poverty in America. Simply axing the programs, doesn't help us move forward in a better way, it simply makes life more difficult for those who already have the least.
    I don't align well with the Repubs since I'm libertarian and want small government in all areas not just for business. One can say that the Democrats and progressives do not want to help the people stuck on welfare as an intervention they think it is an insult that help might be needed.
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You seem to wish to ignore how the party is behaving to reach an end you find desirable all so you can believe you are dealing with benevolence. I'm sorry, but when you must abuse someone in order to help someone else that is not benevolence.
    You really think taxes are abuse?

    You can not simply ignore the equation so you can declare the ends a good.
    I don't ignore the equation, I'm telling you what the government does is a benevolent act (at the very least for the person it provides for and helps to become a fully functioning citizen again, but also for the whole of society).

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Well in Illinois the Repubs tried to pass legislation to stop people that have link-cards from being able to Purchase alcohol, Cigarettes, being used for Strip Clubs or Porno shops. This was after a Police office informed some that a woman had used her link-card to bond herself out of jail. It was shot down by the Demos. Stating that we shouldn't be picking out products in a free market that people may need. Which to me is a crock of BS. there was no good excuse to shoot down this type of legislation.

    As here in Chicago. People use them for gambling and whatever they can. Which is while still getting assistance off other programs.

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    I don't align well with the Repubs since I'm libertarian and want small government in all areas not just for business. One can say that the Democrats and progressives do not want to help the people stuck on welfare as an intervention they think it is an insult that help might be needed.
    I would not disagree with your assessment, except to say that intention means a lot. I don't think that the programs in question were intended to keep people in a perpetual state of poverty. That is what has happened for a significant number of people, demonstrating an obvious need to address the ineffective parts. Again, I find the struggle comes down to a GOP (and libertarian) belief that these programs should be eliminated all together. I can't support that ideal, and don't know how anyone find a productive solution under that circumstance.
    "....The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty...." -Jefferson 1787

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by babilfish View Post
    You really think taxes are abuse?
    Certainly they can be an abuse.


    I don't ignore the equation, I'm telling you what the government does is a benevolent act (at the very least for the person it provides for and helps to become a fully functioning citizen again, but also for the whole of society).
    The government is not benevolent.

    If, under threat, I take money from Peter, keep 50%for myself, and then give the remainder to Paul, how am I being 'benevolent'?

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Certainly they can be an abuse.
    Aha

    But not in all cases, right?


    The government is not benevolent.

    If, under threat, I take money from Peter, keep 50%for myself, and then give the remainder to Paul, how am I being 'benevolent'?
    If Paul was going to starve in the street sans your money, at the very least you're being benevolent to Paul.

    If Peter, on basis of the social contract, is living in your "territory" protected by your military and free to flourish under all the benefits you provide like law and such, I can't really see how you're being malevolent by taking a fee for this.

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not so much change, as eliminate as many as possible.
    Another, perhaps even better alternative, would be to leave feeding the poor to churches and other private charities. They could no doubt do the job more efficiently than the federal government can.

    That way, we could eliminate that subsidy altogether.

    Agricultural cooperatives could work to even out the spikes of supply and demand, too, leaving the federal government out of it altogether.
    I think you're mistaken concerning churches. Historically they actually lobbied the government to help as the problem was often too big for them.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    There are always jobs available. It's a question of someone willing to take them and do the work. If you're basic needs are being met and you're content, why work?
    Not sure that's 100% true. It depends on where you are, your age, and willing the employer s to her someone over qualified. We have more jobs here than people, but the reference is for younger workers.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think you're mistaken concerning churches. Historically they actually lobbied the government to help as the problem was often too big for them.
    Really? I didn't know that.

    It seems the job may be too big for the government as well.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Really? I didn't know that.

    It seems the job may be too big for the government as well.
    It may be. But no one has conquered poverty yet to my knowledge. However, being poor here is not only better than other places in the world, but better than it used to be here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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