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Thread: Food-stamp use doubles

  1. #131
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    yes, no landlord in a decent area would restrict themselves like that. They make it that way so the only areas where section 8 becomes appealing to landlords is in areas where people are too poor to pay the rent so the government kicks in the extra dollars. It still does not change the reality that the HUD system is not within the systems one would cut if they cut welfare. You could kill off social security and the DSS or DHS and you would still never touch section 8 housing. Real reform comes with specific systems, and just saying welfare does not tell a person anything. Do you know that when Bill Clinton signed the work for welfare thing and limited time on TANF that those limits don't apply to children receiving benefits? That is why it can still be abused by people who have multiple kids for benefits. We don't cut off the kids, we only cut off the parent. Since you need dependent children to get it in the first place we missed the biggest part of the abuse. You are also probably not aware those limits do not effect SNAP?

    This is what i am talking about. you cannot read some little article that tries to back it's partisan opinion and become educated on where the abuses are. With the people in our government trying really hard to push money into their friend's hands you miss where the true problems are. It is not always with the poor, many times problems come from the rich skimming off programs for the poor. The rich want the loopholes, the politicians are their tools, and the media obscures the holes and blames someone else so you never know if your only opinion comes from their people and not from your own research.
    No what you are doing is begging the argument to avoid admitting you were absolutely unarguably wrong about Section 8, and were being snotty about it to boot. There are multiple landlords in my area who put decent rental housing into the Section 8 program because they do not want to have to deal with finding tenants or have disruptions to their rental income. They are a great way for the working poor to get into a decent neighborhood even if they have to pay part of the rent out of their own pocket depending on where they fit on the sliding scale.

    Once you actually educate yourself, we can continue the conversation......

  2. #132
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    No what you are doing is begging the argument to avoid admitting you were absolutely unarguably wrong about Section 8, and were being snotty about it to boot.
    First off, you changed off of food stamps to section 8. I know the systems are different. So don't whine about me following your poor argument and beating it with a stick. landlords with valuable property do not change their rentals to section 8 because it is bad for them and their profits. plus it makes it harder to evict someone, change rent with demand, and to screen tenants. Just because the government makes it allowable for you to screw over your rental property by making it section 8 does not mean anyone in a decent area is going to do it. They do add what can be considered penalties to make sure landlords in good areas are not opening up their rentals to the poor. Is it possible to do? Yes, it it something anyone outside of a depressed area would do? Not unless they are an idiot. But if it is so good for you, then why don't you get out there and buy some non section 8 housing and convert it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    There are multiple landlords in my area who put decent rental housing into the Section 8 program because they do not want to have to deal with finding tenants or have disruptions to their rental income. They are a great way for the working poor to get into a decent neighborhood even if they have to pay part of the rent out of their own pocket depending on where they fit on the sliding scale.
    The places i have lived would pitch a fit if a property was rented in their neighborhood under section 8. Not to mention doing such a thing with a property in a HOA protected area would be cause for them to sell your house for you. Like you just said, section 8 is used for properties with high turnover for renters to keep consistent income by putting people who are unable to move easy in their properties. you own argument supports my claims because good properties rent well and don't need to rely on such things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Once you actually educate yourself, we can continue the conversation......
    Oh, i am sure you will continue no matter what. I do find it surprising you are defending a welfare program designed to keep landlords of depressed area from going broke by sucking off taxpayers. I think they call that corporate welfare. Section 8 is a lovely way to have the government subsidize your property in a crappy area while keeping the poor in those areas. It is weldfare for the rich and the poor, and it needs to be reformed.

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    There are multiple welfare programs people work like a champ.
    TANF is the big one, and it's got a time limit. So do unemployment benefits.

    If your income is very low, you might get some benefits like housing subsidies and Medicaid. But no one is getting rich off of public assistance.


    SSI is the final solution and no it is not that hard to get on mental disability.
    Actually, only 1/3 of applicants receive benefits; of those turned down, only 10% are approved.


    That you think a system can be designed for all times without adapting to a changing society speaks volumes to why the whole thing should be rethought.
    Re-read my post.

    I did not say "we should not make any changes at all," I explicitly allowed room for improvement. My point is that many of these programs are already designed with time limits, so throwing everything out doesn't make sense.

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    On a side note, I've seen some Section 8 housing which is not that bad. Public housing gets a bad rap, but isn't always terrible either.

    However, there are no slots open for Section 8 in NYC -- not even on the waiting list, unless you qualify as an "emergency" candidate.

    More to the point, you'd need to do an in-depth analysis to determine if it is somehow a disincentive to work. Merely declaring that "it's a benefit, therefore it's a disincentive" with zero research is, well, a bit facile.

    And if we did find that some aspects discouraged work or income growth, rather than toss the entire program out, it can be adjusted to address the issue.

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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No doubt, Like Obama's $90 million to Hamas in 2009.



    I agree, but tell me what you think that would do to the cost of food in this day and age?



    Again I agree, I don't think you'll find one conservative that believes that bailing out GM or the banks was a wise thing to do. As for donors, that was the stimulus I believe...Much of that was questionable as to the legality of it, but with a politicized AG, nothing happens.... Precedents are set. Thanks Progressives.



    Yes, and instead we are flushing 10 times the amounts down the drain on so called 'green energy' as payoffs to Obama supporters so that their company goes belly up a year later.

    I wonder just what ending agricultural subsides would do to the cost of food in the long run? No doubt, it would increase to cost to the consumer, at least in the short run, as the consumer would be paying the full cost with the government not paying anything, or at least not as much.

    Ending food stamps would place a huge burden on poor families, at least in the short term also, but there are much less expensive ways to help out than via food stamps. Government warehouses for example, could be stocked with surplus commodities in order to both even out price spikes and declines, and provide a source of food for the poor.
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I wonder just what ending agricultural subsides would do to the cost of food in the long run? No doubt, it would increase to cost to the consumer, at least in the short run, as the consumer would be paying the full cost with the government not paying anything, or at least not as much.

    Ending food stamps would place a huge burden on poor families, at least in the short term also, but there are much less expensive ways to help out than via food stamps. Government warehouses for example, could be stocked with surplus commodities in order to both even out price spikes and declines, and provide a source of food for the poor.
    Isn't that just the same subsidy shifted in its appearance? What's the difference?
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Isn't that just the same subsidy shifted in its appearance? What's the difference?
    No junk food would be available, no luxuries, just basic commodities. It would be a lot less expensive for the taxpayer, and provide more nutritious food for the children of the poor.

    It would be a compromise between the current giveaways and just ignoring the needs of the poor.
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No junk food would be available, no luxuries, just basic commodities. It would be a lot less expensive for the taxpayer, and provide more nutritious food for the children of the poor.

    It would be a compromise between the current giveaways and just ignoring the needs of the poor.
    So, it's not subsidies in general that you disagree with, but rather just those subsidies that you would like to change.
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, it's not subsidies in general that you disagree with, but rather just those subsidies that you would like to change.
    Not so much change, as eliminate as many as possible.
    Another, perhaps even better alternative, would be to leave feeding the poor to churches and other private charities. They could no doubt do the job more efficiently than the federal government can.

    That way, we could eliminate that subsidy altogether.

    Agricultural cooperatives could work to even out the spikes of supply and demand, too, leaving the federal government out of it altogether.
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    Re: Food-stamp use doubles

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    This post wins.

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    Go to New York you will hear it sometimes.

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