Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 95

Thread: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    10-30-14 @ 12:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,908

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    now you are getting it. The defense wants him in an institution. It would probably be the best thing he could hope for. They also want to take execution off the table. Both of which are accomplished by a insanity plea. I am not terribly bothered by the idea that the prosecution using means to determine a state of mind defense to be a lie. You already admit to doing the crime when you make the claim so self incrimination becomes a non-issue. Then it just becomes an issue over why you did it and whether or not that excuse is valid. In that case lying becomes a major issue, and making an argument over the defendant's attempt to lie becomes a major part of that. if he is sane lying would be a way to mitigate punishment, which is a argument for the jury to decide if it is valid.

    the defense is making the claim and now they are going to have to argue it. I don't see anywhere that a claim cannot be argued against in court. What I do see is your right to make that argument in court, which involves a counter argument. If he was pleading not guilty i would agree that a truth syrum is not only unreliable, but also a huge violation of his rights. however, he is pleading guilty.
    I don't see the difference between a state hospital and a state prison...

    IMO, Holmes would live longer if he was given the death penalty - in a situation like that he would at least end up on a 24-7 lockdown wing. If he gets life they may throw him into gen-pop and then the wolves will eat him. Jeffery Dahmer is a perfect example of what happens to high profile prisoners when they are thrown in general population. How long did he last? a month or two?

  2. #62
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,301

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    "**** you, 5th amendment!"

    Will be one of the easiest appeals ever, and the guy will walk free because of this idiocy.
    I thought the Constitution was obsolete and illegitimate cause it was written by a bunch of rich, white slaveowners. My how things change.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #63
    Outer space potato man

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51,785

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I thought the Constitution was obsolete and illegitimate cause it was written by a bunch of rich, white slaveowners. My how things change.
    That's just your willful partisan misinterpretation. But have fun arguing with your own imagination.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  4. #64
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    04-10-13 @ 10:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    522

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    "Truth" Drugs in Interrogation - https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...2a09p_0001.htm

    Great read about this method. I'm not sure if / what new information has come to light since this was written in 1993, but I would think the below conclusion would still hold true.

    The salient points that emerge from this discussion are the following. No such magic brew as the popular notion of truth serum exists. The barbiturates, by disrupting defensive patterns, may sometimes be helpful in interrogation, but even under the best conditions they will elicit an output contaminated by deception, fantasy, garbled speech, etc. A major vulnerability they produce in the subject is a tendency to believe he has revealed more than he has. It is possible, however, for both normal individuals and psychopaths to resist drug interrogation; it seems likely that any individual who can withstand ordinary intensive interrogation can hold out in narcosis. The best aid to a defense against narco-interrogation is foreknowledge of the process and its limitations. There is an acute need for controlled experimental studies of drug reaction, not only to depressants but also to stimulants and to combinations of depressants, stimulants, and ataraxics.

  5. #65
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,012

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Intent is what matters. What you did and why you did it is extremely applicable to a charge and a defense.

    Here are a couple of mock examples of my point.

    Someone could slap me across the face and when I punch them back in the head for being stupid I could kill them... Would I be guilty of murder if my intent was just to punch them and not kill them?

    Now lets use the same scenario - a guy slaps me across the face, I pull out a gun and shoot him in the face. Am I guilty of murder?

    Same scenario - I hate a guy who I know will slap me, I concoct a plan for him to slap me just so I can shoot him.

    The end in all these scenarios ended up with a guy dead but is the intent the same in all of them? no.
    My point being insane is no excuse for pleading not guilty of a crime. pleading guilty and insane is ok if it can be proven a person is insane.

    In your example. IMO, you are still guilty of murder. Of course, intent ( or insanity) would be taken into account on determining punishment. In both examples , you still committed a crime.

  6. #66
    Outer space potato man

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51,785

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    "Truth" Drugs in Interrogation - https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...2a09p_0001.htm

    Great read about this method. I'm not sure if / what new information has come to light since this was written in 1993, but I would think the below conclusion would still hold true.
    There is an acute need for controlled experimental studies of drug reaction, not only to depressants but also to stimulants and to combinations of depressants, stimulants, and ataraxics.
    Or they could just, you know, not ****ing do that.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #67
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    04-10-13 @ 10:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    522

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    My point being insane is no excuse for pleading not guilty of a crime. pleading guilty and insane is ok if it can be proven a person is insane.

    In your example. IMO, you are still guilty of murder. Of course, intent ( or insanity) would be taken into account on determining punishment.
    Is it possible to enter an insanity plea without admitting guilt?

  8. #68
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    04-10-13 @ 10:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    522

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Or they could just, you know, not ****ing do that.
    Yeah I definitely disagree with that part. I was referring to the points about it being a poor method of integration.

  9. #69
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,012

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Is it possible to enter an insanity plea without admitting guilt?
    I don't know. What I have been stating is I disagree with the not guilty by reason of insanity. Our laws should be changed to allow only guilty but insane pleas.

  10. #70
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:38 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    The point is being missed here - the commission of the crime is not at issue - the defense is set to enter a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, in effect, admitting the crime but not intent or mental capacity to know it was wrong.

    I believe from my reading of the article that the court is allowing the defense to enter a "truth serum" test as evidence, as part of their plea but also allowing the prosecution to be part of the testing. It sounds to me that the defense has agreed to the deal which makes it acceptible legally. The only issue at trial, from what I've read, is whether or not he will be held in a mental institution for the rest of his life or if he will be subject to the death penalty upon conviction. He's never going free.
    He was allowed to leave the hospital for supervised visits with his parents in 1999, and longer unsupervised releases in 2000.[3] These privileges were revoked when he was found to have smuggled materials about Foster back into the hospital. Hinckley was later allowed supervised visits during 2004 and 2005. Court hearings were held in September 2005 on whether he could have expanded privileges to leave the hospital. Some of the testimony during the hearings centered on whether Hinckley is capable of having a normal relationship with a woman and, if not, whether that would have any bearing on what danger he would pose to society.
    On December 30, 2005, a federal judge ruled that Hinckley would be allowed visits, supervised by his parents, to their home in Williamsburg, Virginia. The judge ruled that Hinckley could have up to three visits of three nights and then four visits of four nights, each depending on the successful completion of the last. All of the experts who testified at Hinckley's 2005 conditional release hearing, including the government experts, agreed that his depression and psychotic disorder were in full remission and that he should have some expanded conditions of release.
    After Hinckley requested further freedoms including two one-week visits with his parents, as well as a month-long visit, U.S. District Judge Paul L. Friedman denied that request on Wednesday, June 6, 2007; he did not deny the request out of a concern that Hinckley was not ready.[clarification needed]
    On June 17, 2009, a federal judge ruled that Hinckley would be given the ability to visit his mother for a dozen visits of 10 days at a time, rather than six, spend more time outside of the hospital, and have a driver’s license.[17] The court also ordered that Hinckley be required to carry a GPS-enabled cell phone to track him whenever he was outside of his parents’ home, and he was forbidden to speak to the news media.[17] This was done over the objections of the prosecutors, who said that he was still a danger to others and had unhealthful and inappropriate thoughts about women. Hinckley recorded a song, “Ballad of an Outlaw,” which the prosecutors claim is “reflecting suicide and lawlessness.”[18]
    It was reported in March 2011 that a forensic psychologist at the hospital had testified that “Hinckley has recovered to the point that he poses no imminent risk of danger to himself or others.”[17] Hinckley returned to court in the spring of 2011 for further direction[17] and was granted additional family visits in May 2011.[19] On November 30, 2011, a hearing began in Washington to determine Hinckley’s future.[20]

    John Hinckley, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •