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Thread: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    I'm an advocate of the use of Sodium Pentathol (Truth Serum) in certain circumstances. In this guys case, his "testimony" will possible help determine his mental condition at the time of the crime and may result in sparing his life. Not that I care about his life, but it's a way of getting at the truth.

    I also advocate the use of "Truth Serum" when a kidnapper will not revel the location of a detained victim whose life may be endangered. I also support its use of the battlefield (I don't support water-boarding).

    Like a lie detector device, the results can not be 100% certain and thus can not be used to convict. It can still be useful in other respects.

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    I don't know about him walking free. Convincing a jury to let him go would be next to impossible. Regardless of the arguments and even the law, this case is so emotional and there is no doubt that he did in fact commit the crime. Finding a jury that would care if his rights were violated is unlikely.
    The point is being missed here - the commission of the crime is not at issue - the defense is set to enter a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, in effect, admitting the crime but not intent or mental capacity to know it was wrong.

    I believe from my reading of the article that the court is allowing the defense to enter a "truth serum" test as evidence, as part of their plea but also allowing the prosecution to be part of the testing. It sounds to me that the defense has agreed to the deal which makes it acceptible legally. The only issue at trial, from what I've read, is whether or not he will be held in a mental institution for the rest of his life or if he will be subject to the death penalty upon conviction. He's never going free.

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    This is very exciting. I have no sympathy for the man who is proven beyond any doubt to be convicted of mass murder. They should issue the drug to him and fry him later!

    Barbiturates are sedative drugs that effect the nervous system. It's influence is dosage dependent. If experts are to issue it they may spare Holmes from overdose and give him enough to be in a hypnotic state so as he will not be able to be conscious of what he says and thus be unable to control his speech. He would thus answer the questions truthfully and not hide behind amendements or laws.

    Too bad barbiturates effect large parts of the brain and how it exactly effects the central nervous system is not known yet.

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/barbiturate.aspx
    If the precedent is set, it would apply to all cases. As terrible as this crime was, he should have the right to a fair trial and to avoid self incrimination.

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    I guess I don't understand why they even need him to confess.
    They do not. It is for the mental evaluation of his competency. If he were not going with an insanity defense, it would not be an issue. Personally, I would have a huge problem as a juror believing anything they tried to use against him from the evaluation if they had him doped up. It could backfire on the prosecution if this goes forward.

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Thanks for the update - I didn't get that from the original posting - that makes a big difference.

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    This is very exciting. I have no sympathy for the man who is proven beyond any doubt to be convicted of mass murder. They should issue the drug to him and fry him later!

    Barbiturates are sedative drugs that effect the nervous system. It's influence is dosage dependent. If experts are to issue it they may spare Holmes from overdose and give him enough to be in a hypnotic state so as he will not be able to be conscious of what he says and thus be unable to control his speech. He would thus answer the questions truthfully and not hide behind amendements or laws.

    Too bad barbiturates effect large parts of the brain and how it exactly effects the central nervous system is not known yet.

    http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/barbiturate.aspx
    Quote Originally Posted by 5th Amendment to the United States Constitution
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[1]
    Hi there.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Are there situations where this should be allowed? Personally, I think it is unconstitutional and I don't like the precedent it sets.
    This is a blatant violation of the 5th amendment.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Are there situations where this should be allowed? Personally, I think it is unconstitutional and I don't like the precedent it sets.
    Yeah it only violates the Fifth Amendment, not to mention the Fourteenth. Oh, it also sets epic precedence.

    The right to remain silent and not incriminate yourself is a civil liberty. No this judge thinks he can just shoot a person up with dope and make him talk because he's a "judge" (and certainly a misguided one at that)...

    I wonder if judges even think about the ramifications of their actions?

    This case is going to end in a mistrial because this idiot judge thinks shooting people up with "truth juice" is constitutional just because he says so. If the jury hears a word of what Holmes says the case will have to be dropped against him and he will need to be retried.

    This is a perfect example of how our authoritarian system works tho - they think they can just do whatever they want..

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This is a blatant violation of the 5th amendment.
    Without question....

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    Re: Judge approves use of 'truth serum' on accused Aurora shooter James Holmes

    I do not approve of administering this "truth serum."

    Hydroflouric acid, on the other hand......

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