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Thread: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    I got a red light ticket once. I had stopped in the intersection for a stray dog. Could not get it dismissed because the dog was in front of the car and the camera was behind me. They didn't have video back then. Supposedly now they have video.

    My neighbor got one for his daughter's car when her boyfriend ran the red light. He went to the judge and told him who was driving the car and the judge said, and I quote, "You are responsible for the car because it is registered in your name". I wasn't aware of that rule.
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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I have mixed feelings on this.I believe that if people were not speeding or running red lights then they would not be getting fined,so its their own damn fault they got fined. At the same time people should be able to face their accusers. And maybe I watched Robocop movies one too many times but I believe that law enforcement duties should be carried out only by law enforcement not private companies and machines.

    Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam
    Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Robert Ruehlman on Thursday ruled that the village's ordinance violated due process. He issued an injunction barring its enforcement.
    There have been numerous legal challenges across the U.S. to red-light camera laws but observers said this is the first ruling they know of striking down a municipality's speeding-camera law.
    "Speed-camera cases have been litigated but we have not come across one where a judge has said, 'Stop this,'" attorney Mike Allen, whose firm brought the case, told MSN News on Friday. "I think it's going to touch off a firestorm around the country. I really do."
    Calls and emails by MSN News to Elmwood Place village officials and police Chief William Peskin were not immediately returned on Friday. Allen said he expects the village to appeal.
    Ruehlman sprinkled colorful language in his ruling striking down Elmwood's "automated speed enforcement program," which is carried out by Optotraffic, a Lanham, Md.-based company, under a contract with the village. Optotraffic gets a 40 percent cut of the revenues from fines it collects.
    The two cameras installed in town reportedly resulted in 6,600 speeding citations — three times the village's population -— at $105 a pop in the first month after enforcement began in September.
    The judge, who heard arguments in January, found that the ordinance fails to provide due process to people receiving a notice of fines in the mail. He said the village doesn’t have a sign warning motorists that traffic cameras are in operation, as required by state law.
    To challenge the $105 fine, a motorist has to pay $25 for a hearing that is "nothing more than a sham!" the judge wrote. At the hearing, he said, the "witness" for the village testifies from a report produced by the company that owns the speed-monitoring unit. Since the "witness" was not present when the alleged violation occurred, he or she can't be cross-examined, Ruehlman wrote.
    Well, the intent of these cameras are nothing more than to generate revenue.... I only wish the government(s) that be actually admit it rather than pretend its for safety... They're trying to take as much money from the general public as possible to line their own elitist pockets. What's next? J-walking tickets via camera?

    I coated my plates in a super reflective plastic so speeding/red light cameras cant get a usable photo of my plate. I don't even speed or run red lights but sometimes these tyrants who operate these programs change the timers on yellow, or change speed zones just so people DO unintentionally run a light or speed.

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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Well, the intent of these cameras are nothing more than to generate revenue.... I only wish the government(s) that be actually admit it rather than pretend its for safety... They're trying to take as much money from the general public as possible to line their own elitist pockets. What's next? J-walking tickets via camera?

    I coated my plates in a super reflective plastic so speeding/red light cameras cant get a usable photo of my plate. I don't even speed or run red lights but sometimes these tyrants who operate these programs change the timers on yellow, or change speed zones just so people DO unintentionally run a light or speed.
    Yeah, and now doesn't Emanuel want to put them up around Chicago schools too? Yet when you heard all the talk about it.....the number one issue cited was public safety. Not that it is meant to draw in revenue. Course with Emanuel he is just trying to figure out a way to create a tragedy until one comes along.

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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yeah, and now doesn't Emanuel want to put them up around Chicago schools too? Yet when you heard all the talk about it.....the number one issue cited was public safety. Not that it is meant to draw in revenue. Course with Emanuel he is just trying to figure out a way to create a tragedy until one comes along.
    Yep...

    Of course it's always about "public safety".... Like the government really cares about people? They want money to keep the machine going so these elitists can live high and mighty off the taxpayer while pretending to give a damn about the average Joe. If these clowns really cared they would let us keep our money...

    I'm glad I live in Lake County, not that is much different up here...

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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    The stop light cameras in my neighborhood are set up to frustrate the commuters to increase the number of violations after the installation caused the violations to go down to such a low number the company wasn't making enough money. What they do is during the busy times in the morning and afternoon randomly have the lights change after only 2 cars got through a green light. This causes the motorists to get frustrated after waiting through 2 greenlights to run it. It is so bad that I know people that avoid the lights by driving through residential areas rather than get caught up in this ridiculous manipulation.

    Anytime crime control becomes a for profit business, you can be sure you will be manipulated into breaking the law if you don't do it on your own. It is time for a Constitutional Amendment saying that for profit crime control, including for profit prisons should be illegal.

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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I have mixed feelings on this.I believe that if people were not speeding or running red lights then they would not be getting fined,so its their own damn fault they got fined. At the same time people should be able to face their accusers. And maybe I watched Robocop movies one too many times but I believe that law enforcement duties should be carried out only by law enforcement not private companies and machines.

    Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam
    Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Robert Ruehlman on Thursday ruled that the village's ordinance violated due process. He issued an injunction barring its enforcement.
    There have been numerous legal challenges across the U.S. to red-light camera laws but observers said this is the first ruling they know of striking down a municipality's speeding-camera law.
    "Speed-camera cases have been litigated but we have not come across one where a judge has said, 'Stop this,'" attorney Mike Allen, whose firm brought the case, told MSN News on Friday. "I think it's going to touch off a firestorm around the country. I really do."
    Calls and emails by MSN News to Elmwood Place village officials and police Chief William Peskin were not immediately returned on Friday. Allen said he expects the village to appeal.
    Ruehlman sprinkled colorful language in his ruling striking down Elmwood's "automated speed enforcement program," which is carried out by Optotraffic, a Lanham, Md.-based company, under a contract with the village. Optotraffic gets a 40 percent cut of the revenues from fines it collects.
    The two cameras installed in town reportedly resulted in 6,600 speeding citations — three times the village's population -— at $105 a pop in the first month after enforcement began in September.
    The judge, who heard arguments in January, found that the ordinance fails to provide due process to people receiving a notice of fines in the mail. He said the village doesn’t have a sign warning motorists that traffic cameras are in operation, as required by state law.
    To challenge the $105 fine, a motorist has to pay $25 for a hearing that is "nothing more than a sham!" the judge wrote. At the hearing, he said, the "witness" for the village testifies from a report produced by the company that owns the speed-monitoring unit. Since the "witness" was not present when the alleged violation occurred, he or she can't be cross-examined, Ruehlman wrote.
    That's a damned good point.
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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Yep...

    Of course it's always about "public safety".... Like the government really cares about people? They want money to keep the machine going so these elitists can live high and mighty off the taxpayer while pretending to give a damn about the average Joe. If these clowns really cared they would let us keep our money...

    I'm glad I live in Lake County, not that is much different up here...
    i have to admit that we had a huge problem in my berg with drivers running red lights
    the camera system effectively eliminated that problem; in under a year
    and even tho we no longer have those cameras in place, the propensity of drivers to run red lights has diminished compared to what it had been
    i attribute that improvement to those cameras
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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    The stop light cameras in my neighborhood are set up to frustrate the commuters to increase the number of violations after the installation caused the violations to go down to such a low number the company wasn't making enough money. What they do is during the busy times in the morning and afternoon randomly have the lights change after only 2 cars got through a green light. This causes the motorists to get frustrated after waiting through 2 greenlights to run it. It is so bad that I know people that avoid the lights by driving through residential areas rather than get caught up in this ridiculous manipulation.

    Anytime crime control becomes a for profit business, you can be sure you will be manipulated into breaking the law if you don't do it on your own. It is time for a Constitutional Amendment saying that for profit crime control, including for profit prisons should be illegal.
    That is seriously F'd up. Have you considered trying to get a local news station or paper to investigate it?

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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    That is seriously F'd up. Have you considered trying to get a local news station or paper to investigate it?
    Since the local paper was bought up by the guy that owns all of the papers in the county the paper is useless. This paper has turned into a personal agenda vehicle for his political ambitions. Talk about F'd up.

    There has been a s**t storm over it though. Unfortunantly the city made a deal where the town only gets money out of the deal after a certain amount of money was made by the company. Meaning if there are not enough violations the town gets nothing. That seems to be all the politicians are worried about. However, I do think that a decision was made to get rid of the cameras after the contract time period expired. Not to mention I think the lights were changed to not do it so much so that it was not so obvious. Used to be that it would be happening every day, now I only see it 2-3 times/month. They must have changed it when they realized the public was catching on.

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    Re: Judge: Town's speeding cameras are '3 Card Monty' scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    The stop light cameras in my neighborhood are set up to frustrate the commuters to increase the number of violations after the installation caused the violations to go down to such a low number the company wasn't making enough money. What they do is during the busy times in the morning and afternoon randomly have the lights change after only 2 cars got through a green light. This causes the motorists to get frustrated after waiting through 2 greenlights to run it. It is so bad that I know people that avoid the lights by driving through residential areas rather than get caught up in this ridiculous manipulation.

    Anytime crime control becomes a for profit business, you can be sure you will be manipulated into breaking the law if you don't do it on your own. It is time for a Constitutional Amendment saying that for profit crime control, including for profit prisons should be illegal.
    I beleive there is an exepmtion in the red light law that if the light is derfective you can legally go through it.

    If the light is set for 2 cars ata time, the light is defective.

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