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Thread: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

  1. #81
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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    What is the problem, i mean aside from the false idea that the US government behaves the same on foreign soil? It is not a surprise considering it is not our land. So yes, if you run off to some terrorist training grounds in a foreign country you might just find yourself whacked by a US drone without a trial. Especially if you are in some place considered a foreign warzone by the US government. really, do you expect the US military to cease it's drone strikes if an american citizen happens to be present voluntarily supporting those who we are at war with? That seems a little absurd to me. I would also happen to think that if obama and holder were not the ones talking about this you might consider a person who leaves america to join a fight against it's military in a foreign war as an enemy combatant and getting what they deserve. You are claiming that it makes you very nervous that the US would use a drone to kill a person who is technically a US citizen while they are fighting against them in a place like afganistan.

    No no, don't let me stop you from running with that. It is wrong in your mind for obama and the US military to act against a US citizen who has joined opposing forces in a war according to you. i am perfectly fine with them using a drone strike to kill that sort of person in a war, but if you think our military should endanger itself and its safety in a warzone I welcome you to your opinion.
    What false idea are you talking about? The US government assassinated Anwar Alawlaki who was a US citizen at the time of his death without due process. (American drone deaths highlight controversy - U.S. News) They also killed his son as well (How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic).

    In doing this they violated the US constitution. (After Protracted Questioning: Holder Admits It's Unconstitutional for Gov't to Kill U.S. Citizen Sitting Peacefully in U.S. in Cafe | CNS News)

    So yeah, this is not a false idea.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  2. #82
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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    What false idea are you talking about? The US government assassinated Anwar Alawlaki who was a US citizen at the time of his death without due process. (American drone deaths highlight controversy - U.S. News) They also killed his son as well (How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic).

    In doing this they violated the US constitution. (After Protracted Questioning: Holder Admits It's Unconstitutional for Gov't to Kill U.S. Citizen Sitting Peacefully in U.S. in Cafe | CNS News)

    So yeah, this is not a false idea.
    Omg. Those people were killed on foreign soil, not on American soil. You are being duped into making a fool out of yourself.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  3. #83
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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Omg. Those people were killed on foreign soil, not on American soil. You are being duped into making a fool out of yourself.
    I know they were killed on foreign soil. Try reading what the other person wrote.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I know they were killed on foreign soil. Try reading what the other person wrote.
    I did. She is saying that it is false that we should or even that we should expect to treat Americans on foreign soil the same as Americans on our own soil. She is saying she supports treating them differently (to which I heartily agree). You responded by showing that Americans are in fact treated differently on foreign soil than they are here. Which makes me wonder what the hell your point was.
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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I did. She is saying that it is false that we should or even that we should expect to treat Americans on foreign soil the same as Americans on our own soil. She is saying she supports treating them differently (to which I heartily agree). You responded by shoeing that Americans are in fact treated differently on foreign soil than they are here. Which makes me wonder what the hell your point was.
    Actually, if you had read what I wrote, you would have seen that my point was that Americans are treated differently on foreign soil and that doing so is unconstitutional. Killing US citizens without due process is unconstitutional.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    You obviously don't know me well. I am not a "right-winger" or a "Republican." I just noted some of the problems with what Holder said. That was all.
    Tererun typically speaks without thinking. He's too busy hacking away. I wonder if he believes that the White House have made that statement had Rand Paul not filibustered the Senate.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually, if you had read what I wrote, you would have seen that my point was that Americans are treated differently on foreign soil and that doing so is unconstitutional. Killing US citizens without due process is unconstitutional.
    It is difficult to tell what your point is when you aren't addressing the point that the person you are responding to has made, and yet you seem to think you are.

    In any case there are two issues here. Killing of American citizens who are on American soil and killing American citizens who are on Foreign soil. The administration says the first is wrong except in cases of imminent threat, and it says the second is permissible when the person has become by their actions an enemy who merely threatens the US. I agree with the administration on both counts.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I never said the title was by you. I said it was wrong

    And you agree
    AND YOU COMMENTS ARE COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

    Now do you have something relevant to state about this idiot icon of yours, Eric Holder?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    It is difficult to tell what your point is when you aren't addressing the point that the person you are responding to has made, and yet you seem to think you are.

    In any case there are two issues here. Killing of American citizens who are on American soil and killing American citizens who are on Foreign soil. The administration says the first is wrong except in cases of imminent threat, and it says the second is permissible when the person has become by their actions an enemy who merely threatens the US. I agree with the administration on both counts.
    Actually, I did address the point that the person was making, I even bolded the sentence.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  10. #90
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    Re: White House admits it can't kill Americans with drones in US

    Quote Originally Posted by TML View Post
    The problem with that logic is that until one is convicted in a court of law, the citizen is by definition only suspected, or accused.
    When someone is killed while they are commiting acts which endanger others (ex shooting other people), it has never been considered a "problem"

    While the Attorney General did answer Rand Paul’s question as stated, it does not answer or define what constitutes “combat”, and even then, to say the government has the authority to execute a citizen based only on allegation or suspicion or being in “combat”, or by simply classifying someone as an enemy combatant prior to capture thereby claiming the Constitution no longer applies to them (which removes the accused ability to prove they are innocent), is a complete disregard for the heart of the rule of law.

    There have been casualties of innocent people even in the use of drones to kill American citizen on foreign soil who were only alleged or suspected of so-called “terrorist” activity, which is an absolute breech of Article 3 Section 3 “No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.”. Notice it does not say “Citizen” but rather “persons” which by human nature possess rights no matter where they are, or if they are considered criminals, terrorists, or not. This coincides which the 5th Amendment “No person… …shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”

    It is unwise, illogical, and against all Principles on which the Constitution was based to think armed drones in the use of assassination, especially on American soil, is the least bit acceptable… and would never be so by any rational mind.
    The word combat has a well known and well understood definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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