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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I'm a liberal about as much as you are a fascist
    EDIT: Self edited remark as it was uncalled for.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Ah yes, well that's not how it works in real life.
    Roe is tenuous at best, new challenges are constantly making their way up the ladder. Only a matter of time before the rights of a defenseless child is recognized over that of the selfish, immoral justification that exists now.

    See you like BIG GOVERNMENT to tell a women
    Nonsense, that is your side of the argument, forcing your immorality, and disregard for life on the rest of society.

    to tell a women she should be FORCED to carry to term a baby
    And you probably think that all acts of sex are rape too don't you?

    and go through mental and physical changes
    And women don't know that their bodies go through these changes during pregnancy? This is all new to them until they find out they are pregnant?

    while you apply NOTHING of the sort to the man involved during the same 9 months.
    I am all for the fathers of these unborn children stepping up to support the mother during the pregnancy. Many would, except for the woman shutting them out completely.

    Until you and others can do that
    I do what I can, for example, right now I am talking to you.

    **** pro-lifers.
    A tad bit emotional there eh? I don't hold such contempt for those that support your position, I just am saddened that they can so devalue life that they are willing to discard it like trash. Congratulations, You have effectively laid out the worst parts of the pro abortion crowd.
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    I think you may have taken this out of context. I was replying to a post about when the government should have involvement. My point was that although there is disagreement over when, there is a time when the government should become involved.

    How about answering the question you quoted: Should the government have no regulations on abortion at nine months?
    Why should the government be involved? Canada has no regulation on abortion and it works well for them.
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    It is because viability is a fact that we cannot move into the moral argument over abortion.
    Certainly we can. It is not up to any individual, including you, what moral standards are. The fact is that life is involved, and the taking of life. Of course morals must be involved.

    You either allow abortion or you don't -
    I think it should be allowed but also believe it to be immoral. There is no conflict there at all. It's the same with prostitution. Some feel it should be legal even while finding it immoral. There are many such laws.

    if you allow it then you have to set limits based on certain facts which aren't changing (for a long while yet) such as when the fetus is viable outside the womb because then you are harming someone who can survive unaided outside the womb.
    The the direct opposite of the "A woman should have control over her own body' argument. Suddenly, after a required number of months, she no longer has control over her body and it now belongs to the State.. This 'viability' thing just doesn't stand because a baby, even after its born, is not completely 'viable' until many years later. We are still dealing with human life whether it is 'viable' or not.

    I have never had any qualms about calling the bunch of cells created by an egg and sperm a human being because the "personhood" or "human beingness" argument is simply a sideshow to whether that person can survive unaided and if so - whether that survival will harm them or not.
    Much like the unwillingness to call it a baby, a person, or a potential human being. Those who want to control the language feel they control the debate.

    Studies show that for those born between 20 - 24 weeks, early preterms survival rate after birth is about 9 in 100 at best and even then there is a high chance of serious disability. The only anti abortion argument that can be made in reality is to abolish it altogether but then you simply go back to the old days of *back-room / back alley / back yard / back street abortion with coathangers and similar.
    It is not black and white. Women should be made completely aware that they are taking a human life and that there is help available if they decide to give it up after the baby is born. But many pro abortionists are against even this counseling.

    The reality as I see it is that anyone who is anti 24 weeks is simply trying to bring the limit down piecemeal (They realise a sudden drop to 0 weeks is unlikely to it has to be an incremental process over time.) to a wholesale ban because that is the ultimate end game for those who refuse to acknowledge the facts of viability.
    I don't think you're getting much argument on this 'viability' thing. Whether it is 'viable' or not it is still the taking of a human life.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well since a potential person cannot gain citizenship, then it is up to the mother to decide what to do with her body
    .

    Are you arguing that this is a 'citizenship' issue?

    Thank you for your admittal that a CITIZEN of the U.S. should be able to determine whether or not they should go through with a 9 month pregnancy which is biological, mental, and physical changes to her body without GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE.
    Actually the government does already 'interfere'.

    Seems YOU are the one confused here like most pro-lifers.
    Yeah. It's all about citizenship. Stick with that unconfused position.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Roe is tenuous at best, new challenges are constantly making their way up the ladder. Only a matter of time before the rights of a defenseless child is recognized over that of the selfish, immoral justification that exists now.
    Keep dreaming, we are beyond the dark ages where men had control over women's body parts. I know YOU want to return to that era, I don't. As for a fetus rights, are you saying they should all be granted SSN and citizen rights too, and if not, why? You claime they have rights? How can they when they aren't born?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nonsense, that is your side of the argument, forcing your immorality, and disregard for life on the rest of society.
    LOL is that why you and other pro-lifers are trying to get BIG GOVERNMENT involved in forcing women through their pregnancies? As for forcing immorality on the rest of society how? Am I forcing YOUR wife or someone to have an abortion? Therefore, I am forcing NOTHING on society. That is YOU and other conservatives that hate freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And you probably think that all acts of sex are rape too don't you?
    Where did you pull that out of your ass from?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And women don't know that their bodies go through these changes during pregnancy? This is all new to them until they find out they are pregnant?
    Are you saying a woman loses ALL CHOICE because she has sex? That's ludicrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I am all for the fathers of these unborn children stepping up to support the mother during the pregnancy. Many would, except for the woman shutting them out completely.
    Funny, don't see any conservative laws stepping up to support your claim. I only see the right trying to make laws to control a woman's body and nothing about the man.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I do what I can, for example, right now I am talking to you.
    Oh yeah, talking on an internet message board annonymously. Oh you activisty you.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    A tad bit emotional there eh? I don't hold such contempt for those that support your position, I just am saddened that they can so devalue life that they are willing to discard it like trash. Congratulations, You have effectively laid out the worst parts of the pro abortion crowd.
    Not emotional at all. You and other pro-lifers show your contempt for women and want big government to force them to carry for 9 months. Your contempt deserves contemp. You have laid out the true ignorance of the pro-life argument.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If "consciousness" is the benchmark, hell, there are some walking, talking adults that would qualify for abortion. :/
    And a lot of potentially brilliant people lost while the 'conscious' walk among us.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    Are you arguing that this is a 'citizenship' issue?
    I'm claiming as a women in the U.S. as a CITIZEN, she has rights to her body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    [
    Actually the government does already 'interfere'.

    And you along with other conservatives support BIG GOVERNMENT doing that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    [
    Yeah. It's all about citizenship. Stick with that unconfused position.
    Since we are talking about U.S. citizens, there is no confusion when one is a citizen and the other is not.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And a lot of potentially brilliant people lost while the 'conscious' walk among us.
    Right, because all those aborted would have never resorted to crime or done anything bad right? What an emotional response from you.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Ah yes, well that's not how it works in real life.
    Yes, that is how it works in real life. Do all these women still not yet get it, despite all the money spent on sex education?
    See you like BIG GOVERNMENT to tell a women she should be FORCED to carry to term a baby and go through mental and physical changes while you apply NOTHING of the sort to the man involved during the same 9 months. Until you and others can do that, **** pro-lifers.
    The man responsible was not mentioned. And it is illegal to carry out an abortion after the baby is 'viable' or BIG GOVERNMENT will step in and she will be FORCED to carry the baby to term..

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