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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Now you are contradicting yourself. You said that the govt has only those powers that the constitution has authorized.

    Now, you're saying that the govt has the power to protect peoples right to life, even though you haven't shown where the constitution grants such a power.
    is not the federal and state government to see that the natural rights of the people are protected? because the founders say we an unalienable rights....is not that why both governments have constitutions, which guarantee...protection for life, liberty, and property, ...which the 5th amendment protects.

    again as Madison says" if men were angels, no government would be necessary", ...but because men are not angels, governments create laws to protect people's life liberty, and their property.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    I'm the one disagreeing with this. Shouldn't this post be directed at Risky Thicket, who made that claim?
    Risky Thicket used the word person not human.

    Originally Posted by Risky Thicket
    1. How is that reported in the US Census?

    2. Do zefs count as a person in state and federal income tax deductions?
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    is not the federal and state government to see that the natural rights of the people are protected? because the founders say we an unalienable rights....is not that why both governments have constitutions, which guarantee...protection for life, liberty, and property, ...which the 5th amendment protects.

    again as Madison says" if men were angels, no government would be necessary", ...but because men are not angels, governments create laws to protect people's life liberty, and their property.
    Please feel free to start your own thread about natural rights.

    This thread is about abortions.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Risky Thicket used the word person not human.
    He was asked "Do you need to be included in the US Census before you are a human being", and responded "that's the point Zefs are not counted."

    I took that as confirming the statement he replied to.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Please feel free to start your own thread about natural rights.

    This thread is about abortions.
    lets play a game, ..where is privacy in the constitution?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Well, persons are not aborted.
    I call fetuses fetuses because that is the proper term for that stage of development.
    I have never heard a mother describe the life within her a 'a fetus'.

    Actually the limit of viability is currently 24 weeks gestation. The limit of viability has not changed in the last 12 years.
    In the Roe vs Wade decision they set viability about 24 to 28 weeks gestation.Consciousness takes place about 24 weeks weeks gestation. So the time frame is the same and the goal posts have really not been moved.
    But what has 'viability' got to do with it? Does a woman's right to privacy disappear from one week to the next? Is her 'choice' removed? Is it no longer her body?

    What really lies at the bottom of all this is the semantics, so we can pretend it's not a human being we're dealing with, or a 'person', or is doesn't have a functioning brain anyway, or any number of things. All of these euphemisms are being used to hide something ugly and, I believe, immoral. We are murdering innocent life. That's it.

    Nonetheless, I still believe abortion should be legal. But I also believe that the issue is hugely serious and one that should be dealt with honestly and openly and be recognized for what it really is.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    No involvement? You mean anyone should be able to open an abortion clinic from their home, and perform abortions without any medical training?
    HELL YEAH! Coat hanger abortions over here, just follow me into the alley!

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Good.

    I mean, it may be 12 weeks, or 14, or 18. But pretending that there's no matter of human life involved, even as the fetus steadily acquires human features - that is more illogical - and eventually much more immoral - than pretending that a zygote is a human being.

    This merely brings Arkansas within the civilized norm: abortion on demand is illegal after 12 weeks in Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic (yes, the godless, jolly Czech Republic), Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Italy, Poland....
    The fetus doesn't have brain activity until twenty weeks. That is the only logical point involved here. You cannot force your moral beliefs down someone else's throat. And the European abortion laws are much more complicated than you make them out to be.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by tonydanza View Post
    The fetus doesn't have brain activity until twenty weeks.
    And sometimes much longer.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by tonydanza View Post
    The fetus doesn't have brain activity until twenty weeks. That is the only logical point involved here. You cannot force your moral beliefs down someone else's throat. And the European abortion laws are much more complicated than you make them out to be.
    Then why is 20 weeks logical? What if my moral beliefs are that any point before birth is okay? You can just shove your morals down my throat and tell me 20 weeks?

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