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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Yes they are two separate entities....

    A child is not an body part of the mother - hence they are two separate entities.
    The fetus and umbilical cord is attached to the woman. It is a part of the woman's life and until viability it does not have a life of its own.

    If the woman dies a pre viable fetus will die with her. Once the fetus reaches viability it has good chance of surviving the woman's death if it is removed immediately and given medical aid if needed.
    Last edited by minnie616; 03-09-13 at 05:30 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you list yourself as a conservative, and you see i am getting fire from YOU ,as well as LIBERALS.

    oh i am smart enough, its just those here who are not smart enough to answer, my questions.......i exclude<-- you from them...
    Dude libertarians can't be pro-choice. That violates the basic principals of being a libertarian - the right to life - the right to individualism.

    As far as I'm concerned abortion should be treated as murder.

    Government shouldn't be legalizing or endorsing murder, however they are with death panels and abortion.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    No they're charged with murder.
    The murder of the fetus which is feticide.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Dude libertarians can't be pro-choice. That violates the basic principals of being a libertarian - the right to life - the right to individualism.

    As far as I'm concerned abortion should be treated as murder.

    Government shouldn't be legalizing or endorsing murder, however they are with death panels and abortion.
    i have to tell you are some pro-choice libertarians, they exist, libertarians,--------> main stay is....... government is to be limited.

    but to put your mind at ease.......i am not for abortion.

    i was playing on words with liberals to make themselves contradict what they believe in.....and they do.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The fetus and umbilical cord is attached to the woman. It is a part of the woman's life and until viability it does not have a life it own.

    If the woman dies a pre viable fetus will die with her. Once the fetus reaches viability it has good chance of surviving the woman's death if it is removed immediately and given medical aid if needed.
    Can you give me an example of a "pre-viable fetus?"

    I've heard of 3-month old fetuses living outside their mothers womb and surviving. The same individuals that could have been aborted.

    Now, attempting to claim a fetus is a body part because of the umbilical cord is loony... If I put a straw in my mouth and stick it into another individuals mouth does that make me a body part?

    Also, lets not forget an umbilical cord is not even a body part, nor is the placenta.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i have to tell you are some pro-choice libertarians, they exist, libertarians,--------> main stay is....... government is to be limited.

    but to put your mind at ease.......i am not for abortion.

    i was playing on words with liberals to make themselves contradict what they believe in.....and they do.
    I'm a libertarian/classical liberal so I really don't see how a libertarian could be pro-choice on abortion considering the premise is to murder another individual. I know there are all types of libertarians out there so the term "libertarian" is subjective. However obviously we all agree on limited government intervention, but isn't Roe vs Wade government intervention? I think it most certainly is. So beyond the whole murder concept of abortion it still violates the principals of my brand of libertarian(ism).

    Also us libertarians shouldn't refer to progressives as "liberals" because we're literal liberals and "liberals" they give us a bad name... Progressives have turned "liberal" into a dirty name.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Can you give me an example of a "pre-viable fetus?"

    I've heard of 3-month old fetuses living outside their mothers womb and surviving. The same individuals that could have been aborted.

    Now, attempting to claim a fetus is a body part because of the umbilical cord is loony... If I put a straw in my mouth and stick it into another individuals mouth does that make me a body part?

    Also, lets not forget an umbilical cord is not even a body part, nor is the placenta.
    The earliest surviving preemie was Amilia Homestead who was born at 22 weeks. . . a 3-month old fetus would be 13 weeks.

    Earliest surviving preemie to stay in hospital - Health - Children's health | NBC News
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I'm a libertarian/classical liberal so I really don't see how a libertarian could be pro-choice on abortion considering the premise is to murder another individual. I know there are all types of libertarians out there so the term "libertarian" is subjective. However obviously we all agree on limited government intervention, but isn't Roe vs Wade government intervention? I think it most certainly is. So beyond the whole murder concept of abortion it still violates the principals of my brand of libertarian(ism).

    Also us libertarians shouldn't refer to progressives as "liberals" because we're literal liberals and "liberals" they give us a bad name... Progressives have turned "liberal" into a dirty name.
    a liberal is a progressive.

    classical liberalism died in america after the civil war.

    progressives came into being about 1890, , and you see them with TR, AND W. WILSON.

    however the term progressive faded, and they took of the title of liberal.

    the founders were classical liberals, as are libertarians today.

    remember, that nothing always fits into one little neat box, i have heard of pro choice libertarians.....its a debate of .....right over your own body, and a right to life.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The murder of the fetus which is feticide.
    I'm sure some states will call it that. I'm really not concerned or care about the language considering feticide is the same as homicide and carries the same penalty... Of course - that is - only when the mother wants the child.

    You can split hairs all you like, but that doesn't change the fact individuals are prosecuted all the time for killing what you refer to as NOT a valid form of life.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I'm sure some states will call it that. I'm really not concerned or care about the language considering feticide is the same as homicide and carries the same penalty... Of course - that is - only when the mother wants the child.

    You can split hairs all you like, but that doesn't change the fact individuals are prosecuted all the time for killing what you refer to as NOT a valid form of life.
    Also, there are plenty that call both murder. For example, the CA Penal Code calls both murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Example:

    CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE

    187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a
    fetus, with malice aforethought.

    (b) This section shall not apply to any person who commits an act
    that results in the death of a fetus if any of the following apply:
    (1) The act complied with the Therapeutic Abortion Act, Article 2
    (commencing with Section 123400) of Chapter 2 of Part 2 of Division
    106 of the Health and Safety Code.
    (2) The act was committed by a holder of a physician's and surgeon'
    s certificate, as defined in the Business and Professions Code, in a
    case where, to a medical certainty, the result of childbirth would be
    death of the mother of the fetus or where her death from childbirth,
    although not medically certain, would be substantially certain or
    more likely than not.
    (3) The act was solicited, aided, abetted, or consented to by the
    mother of the fetus.
    (c) Subdivision (b) shall not be construed to prohibit the
    prosecution of any person under any other provision of law.

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