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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I don't say "don't tell me what I can do with my body" because I know the right to privacy is not about what a person can do with their body. The right to privacy is about reproductive rights so your analogy that it is the equivalent of someone saying " don't tell me I can't shoot some random dude with my gun" is just wrong.
    Oh so shooting someone in the privacy of their own home is fine with you using your flawed logic.

    A fetus is an individual NOT a body part. There is nothing private about that. Abortion has absolutely NOTHING to do with an individuals right to privacy.

    What about that fetuses right to live?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?

    Do you not understand what "reasonable doubt" means? it means doubt that an individual violated the law - the law that is truth.
    No, the law is not Truth

    It's almost like you're trying to argue law is theory or really doesn't exist.

    Here is absolute truth. 720 ILCS 5 - that is the criminal code for Second Degree Murder in Illinois. That code exists, hence it is the truth.
    [/quote]

    No, 720 ILCS 5 is not "Absolute Truth"

    Existence does not make something "Absolute Truth". Lies exist. Lies are the opposite of "Absolute Truth"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Oh so shooting someone in the privacy of their own home is fine with you using your flawed logic.

    A fetus is an individual NOT a body part. There is nothing private about that. Abortion has absolutely NOTHING to do with an individuals right to privacy.

    What about that fetuses right to live?
    A fetis has no right to live. Only a person has such a right and a fetus is not a person, as the word is used in the constitution
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Since I've never said anything about what I believe concerning right and wrong, it would be your dishonest argument that is the problem, coupled with your continued reliance on ad hom arguments, which are inherently fallacious.
    Do you seriously believe what you type?

    Are really trying to imply murder is a fallacy?

    My argument is against your justification of abortion - not you.

    Furthermore, every time progressives like you get the business spit at you - you start deflecting the facts with your ad hominem mirror.

    Do you have any idea how many times I have been through this stage of debate with a progressive?

    Everything from here on out will - in your mind - be a personal attack or a fallacy...

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Do you seriously believe what you type?

    Are really trying to imply murder is a fallacy?

    My argument is against your justification of abortion - not you.

    Furthermore, ever time progressives like you get the business spit at you - you start deflecting the facts with your ad hominem mirror.

    Do you have any idea how many times I have been through this stage of debate with a progressive?

    Everything from here on out will in your mind be a personal attack or a fallacy...
    The fact is that for several posts in a row you have presented no factual argument relating to abortion, and have made several ad hom arguments.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    A fetis has no right to live. Only a person has such a right and a fetus is not a person, as the word is used in the constitution
    A fetus is a person and an individual. You have no damn proof to prove otherwise.

    I was due on October 12th, I was born on September 17th - does that not make me valid as a human because I wasn't birthed on time? or was I only valid on October 12th or later?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    WHen it comes to what the law is, it most certainly does matter.

    You free to hold opinions on matters of truth. There's nothing wrong with that (quite the opposite in fact). However, we live in a nation whose laws are determined by a legal document known as the constitution, and not by some random individuals philosophical beliefs.

    BTW, as a factual matter, one need not show when something was created in order to prove that it exists. One need to show proof that it exists. Let me know when you can prove that a "moment of conception" actually exists. The scientific evidence proves that conception is a process, with no clear moment that can be used to mark its' beginning.
    What is the constitution but a group of individuals philosophical beliefs? Have you gone absolute on me now?
    Random or not, the constitution is simply a group of people's best stab at discerning Truth, at best. And we have seen that often is wasn't a very good stab, or at least it's interpretation and implementation were not.

    So now you are trying to take us from the discussion about when an unborn child actually becomes human, to the idea that conception itself is some nebulous process for which we can't fix a precise point. Why the shift?
    You haven't yet provided an argument to my point that because we can't define when an unborn child becomes human, we should err on the side of caution and call it at conception. Now you want to equivocate on the point of conception?
    As the tail may wag their dog, so the dishonest persons conclusions must wag their facts.


    “That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    ... Abortion has absolutely NOTHING to do with an individuals right to privacy.
    Abortion does have something to do with an individuals right to privacy.

    I think perhaps you do not understand what right to privacy is really about:

    From this article:

    Right of privacy: personal autonomy

    The right of privacy has evolved to protect the freedom of individuals to choose whether or not to perform certain acts or subject themselves to certain experiences. This personal autonomy has grown into a 'liberty' protected by the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment.
    However, this liberty is narrowly defined and generally only protects privacy of family, marriage, motherhood, procreation, and child rearing.
    There have been attempts to further extend the right of privacy under the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution; however, a general right to personal autonomy has yet to take hold beyond limited circumstances.

    The personal autonomy dimension of the right of privacy has been overwhelmingly developed in cases dealing with reproductive rights.
    [B] The Supreme Court first recognized an independent right of privacy within the 'penumbra' (fringe area) of the Bill of Rights in Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479 (1965). In this case, a right of marital privacy was invoked to void a law prohibiting contraception. Later cases expanded upon this fundamental right, and in Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), the right of privacy was firmly established under the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment. The court classified this right as fundamental, thus requiring any governmental infringement to be justified by a compelling state interest.
    Roe held that the state's compelling interest in preventing abortion and protecting the life of the mother outweighs a mother's personal autonomy only after viability.

    Before viability, it was held, the mother's liberty of personal privacy limits state interference due to the lack of a compelling state interest.
    Personal Autonomy | LII / Legal Information Institute
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    A fetis has no right to live. Only a person has such a right and a fetus is not a person, as the word is used in the constitution
    You have said (If I remember correctly from your post) that a child is not a person until it is born. Is that your personal belief, or is that simply the law as it exists today, or both?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The fact is that for several posts in a row you have presented no factual argument relating to abortion, and have made several ad hom arguments.
    Here is fact - abortion meets the criteria of first degree murder.

    Funny how someone can be charged with murder for shooting or punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, however that same woman on that same day could go get an abortion and it's perfectly fine... If a "fetus" isn't human, than how can the criminal system charge someone with murder? oh yeah, because the only thing that matters in that instance is NOT weather the fetus was valid but its about weather or not the mother wanted the baby.

    See how that works?

    You have anything to say about that?

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