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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Choose any law. Murder for instance, the exception would be in self defense or the defense of others. Drugs, certain drugs are banned at the state and federal level, but there are exceptions for religious ceremony and medical experimentation.
    I'm asking you a specific example of your statement that ANY laws have exceptions.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    That still doesn't change that she could make the decision herself to do with her own body.
    Well yes, everyone can do what they want with their bodies if you choose to make that stretch. We can make our bodies rob, rape, murder and so on, but the law still can respond to what we do with our bodies, such as incarcerate them indefinitely.
    That's the idealised picture, but what is the reality? Can you enumerate the chance of a happy family home?
    My theory, unlike yours, is the pro-abortionists came from unhappy homes and the idea of happy homes sounds rather foreign to them. Would you agree?

    They do once they pass 24 weeks within the womb.
    Actually that is not so. In many areas they have late term abortions that go well beyond 24 weeks.

    You claimed abortion was immoral, can you explain why?
    Because it is the taking of a life. It's about personal responsibility and how we value ourselves.

    "We" don't abort babies, women do for a variety of reasons.
    'Women' don't abort babies, abortionists do.

    Very few could be called "immoral."
    According to you, yes.

    The point remains that making women carry through to full term the 50 million babies would have an impact on society through large numbers of babies ending up in care homes.
    Actually demographics say otherwise. Women in the democracies are not having enough babies, which is why many countries are importing people from less well off areas of the world in order to pay the taxes on the social programs. We can see the social turmoil that this often creates.
    If there were no children in care homes because they were being found safe good homes very quickly, you might have a point but you don't. Facts on the ground don't support you.
    In fact there are many families hoping to adopt, with many having to go overseas to find a child.

    You are presupposing. Firstly those children have to be cared for in care homes, then the expense of finding, vetting and transferring to family homes if they exist in the numbers that equal the number of children who would be born.
    There are many who would volunteer to find good homes for babies rather than having them aborted or abused.. The government need not be involved.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. Self defense is not an exception

    If you kill someone in self-defense, then it's not murder.

    Drugs are not banned. Illegal possession is banned. Possessing those drugs for certain purposes are not "illegal possession"
    And just a wiggly way of saying the same thing. You're obvious - when you start debating semantics we all know it's simply because you know your arguments have been proven wrong.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    I'm asking you a specific example of your statement that ANY laws have exceptions.
    I gave you two. Can you think of any that don't? Even jaywalking laws have exceptions.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And just a wiggly way of saying the same thing. You're obvious - when you start debating semantics we all know it's simply because you know your arguments have been proven wrong.
    When someone wants to ignore what their words actually mean, then they cry "semantics" because they don't want to stand up for their own claims
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I gave you two. Can you think of any that don't? Even jaywalking laws have exceptions.
    Those aren't exceptions.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. Self defense is not an exception

    If you kill someone in self-defense, then it's not murder.

    Drugs are not banned. Illegal possession is banned. Possessing those drugs for certain purposes are not "illegal possession"
    Example:

    CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE

    187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a
    fetus, with malice aforethought.
    (b) This section shall not apply to any person who commits an act
    that results in the death of a fetus if any of the following apply:
    (1) The act complied with the Therapeutic Abortion Act, Article 2
    (commencing with Section 123400) of Chapter 2 of Part 2 of Division
    106 of the Health and Safety Code.
    (2) The act was committed by a holder of a physician's and surgeon'
    s certificate, as defined in the Business and Professions Code, in a
    case where, to a medical certainty, the result of childbirth would be
    death of the mother of the fetus or where her death from childbirth,
    although not medically certain, would be substantially certain or
    more likely than not.
    (3) The act was solicited, aided, abetted, or consented to by the
    mother of the fetus.

    (c) Subdivision (b) shall not be construed to prohibit the
    prosecution of any person under any other provision of law.

    CA has three exceptions to murder.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    I'm asking you a specific example of your statement that ANY laws have exceptions.
    Why would a law have exceptions?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Unfortunately studies show that while survivability for babies born netween 24 and 25 weeks have improved, there has not been an improvement in the rate of survival for babies born less than 23 weeks into pregnancy. 9 out of 100 born less than 23 weeks old surviving and even then with severe disability is not a good reason to lower the abortion limit.
    Yes, that is true for the moment but medical knowledge continues to expand and there is no apparent reason why babies might be viable in less that 24, 20 or 16 weeks. Laws in these areas cannot be written in stone.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Example:

    CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE

    187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a
    fetus, with malice aforethought.
    (b) This section shall not apply to any person who commits an act
    that results in the death of a fetus if any of the following apply:
    (1) The act complied with the Therapeutic Abortion Act, Article 2
    (commencing with Section 123400) of Chapter 2 of Part 2 of Division
    106 of the Health and Safety Code.
    (2) The act was committed by a holder of a physician's and surgeon'
    s certificate, as defined in the Business and Professions Code, in a
    case where, to a medical certainty, the result of childbirth would be
    death of the mother of the fetus or where her death from childbirth,
    although not medically certain, would be substantially certain or
    more likely than not.
    (3) The act was solicited, aided, abetted, or consented to by the
    mother of the fetus.

    (c) Subdivision (b) shall not be construed to prohibit the
    prosecution of any person under any other provision of law.

    CA has three exceptions to murder.
    Those are not exceptions to murder. They describe circumstances under which the killing of a human is not murder
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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