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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I most certainly does say that. Clearly and explicitely



    And it allows for abortions up until the moment of birth. Under RvW, abortions can not be banned. Not ever.
    Again, untrue. States may regulate abortion (as in ban) after viability (again a definition the court spun out of wholecloth). Your statement is debunked by the states that have laws banning late term abortion (and have been upheld).

    The United States Supreme Court decisions on abortion, including Roe v. Wade, allow states to impose more restrictions on post-viability abortions than during the earlier stages of pregnancy.

    As of April 2007, 36 states had bans on late-term abortions that were not facially unconstitutional (i.e. banning all abortions) or enjoined by court order.[18] In addition, the Supreme Court in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart ruled that Congress may ban certain late-term abortion techniques, "both previability and postviability".

    The Supreme Court has held that bans must include exceptions for threats to the woman's life, physical health, and mental health, but four states allow late-term abortions only when the woman's life is at risk; four allow them when the woman's life or physical health is at risk, but use a definition of health that pro-choice organizations believe is impermissibly narrow.[18] Assuming that one of these state bans is constitutionally flawed, then that does not necessarily mean that the entire ban would be struck down: "invalidating the statute entirely is not always necessary or justified, for lower courts may be able to render narrower declaratory and injunctive relief."[19]

    Also, 13 states prohibit abortion after a certain number of weeks' gestation (usually 24 weeks).[18] The U.S. Supreme Court held in Webster v. Reproductive Health Services that a statute may create "a presumption of viability" after a certain number of weeks, in which case the physician must be given an opportunity to rebut the presumption by performing tests.[20] Therefore, those 13 states must provide that opportunity. Because this provision is not explicitly written into these 13 laws, as it was in the Missouri law examined in Webster, pro-choice organizations believe that such a state law is unconstitutional, but only "to the extent that it prohibits pre-viability abortions".[21]

    Ten states require a second physician to approve.[18] The U.S. Supreme Court struck down a requirement of "confirmation by two other physicians" (rather than one other physician) because "acquiescence by co-practitioners has no rational connection with a patient's needs and unduly infringes on the physician's right to practice".[22] Pro-choice organizations such as the Guttmacher Institute therefore interpret some of these state laws to be unconstitutional, based on these and other Supreme Court rulings, at least to the extent that these state laws require approval of a second or third physician.[18]

    Nine states have laws that require a second physician to be present during late-term abortion procedures in order to treat a fetus if born alive.[18] The Court has held that a doctor's right to practice is not infringed by requiring a second physician to be present at abortions performed after viability in order to assist in saving the life of the fetus.[23]
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And when it comes to "defining" the law, the constitution gives that power to SCOTUS.
    Not exactly. The word is "interpret".

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are aware that RvW has not been overturned, right?
    For the moment, yes.

    RvW dealt with several arguments, not just the privacy of a woman and the language they used is extremely clear.
    “Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man.”

    -Thomas Jefferson

    When the term “person” is applied to a particular class of human beings, it is an affirmation of their individual rights. In other words, to be a person is to be protected by a series of God-given rights and constitutional guarantees such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    This terrifies the pro-abortion foes!

    They know that if we clearly define the preborn baby as a person, they will have the same right to life as all Americans do!

    This then also begs the question, is every human being a person?

    There is a very real sense in which the need to answer this second question is, in itself, an absurdity.

    What is Personhood? | Personhood USA
    The majority opinion in Wade failed to address the question of personhood.

    And the constitution does not grant the govt the power to enforce morality, particularly the deranged morality of the religious right
    Funny you bring up a character assassination in your description here. See, I would think that rational people would think that the intentional killing of millions of children would be in the "deranged" category.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, I'm not
    Easy to say were it not for where I quoted you directly.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Because by viability they have a good chance of surviving outside the woman's womb with or without medical help.
    Also after 6 months there is a much higher risk for the womans life if she has an abortion.
    But with the rapid increases in medical knowledge, if viability is the issue, then the State may have the right, with professional input, to put a time limit on when an abortion might take place.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The constitution does not define "free", "speech" or the term "free speech".
    Really?

    The simple fact I'm not in jail or you're not in jail for talking **** proves otherwise.

    If I was wrong then most likely you wouldn't be sitting where you're at right now talking **** - you'd be in a North Korean style prison camp.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    More like the Surpreme Courts opinion.

    Unborn victims of violence refers to feticide which is an act against a fetus not an act against a person.
    Yes, it's quite right that it was the opinion of the Supreme Court. As we know these opinions can change substantially over time, which is quite likely why the pro-abortionists don't want to revisit the issue.

    Why is there a law against feticide at all if it's nothing but a group of cells?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    On a related note, this (the Arkansas law) is how the pro-life movement should have been concentrating from the get-go. By enacting legislation in the majority of states limiting abortion in the allowed to legislate after viability stage they would establish the will of the people against abortion. This would have gone a long way towards convincing the court and the federal legislature to check their ****.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Again, untrue. States may regulate abortion (as in ban) after viability (again a definition the court spun out of wholecloth). Your statement is debunked by the states that have laws banning late term abortion (and have been upheld).
    Wrong. States may not ban abortion. They can regulate it, but they can't ban it

    The laws concerning late term abortions allow late term abortions when the mothers life or health is in danger. Those laws are not bans
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Really?

    The simple fact I'm not in jail or you're not in jail for talking **** proves otherwise.

    If I was wrong then most likely you wouldn't be sitting where you're at right now talking **** - you'd be in a North Korean style prison camp.
    No, we're not in jail because SCOTUS has made many decisions defining how the 1st amend can be applied
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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