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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The Constitution is silent on the definition of person. According to Roe v Wade the states may decide what to allow after viability is reached as long as they maintain an exception for the health of the mother. The states even get to choose the doctors that will make that health of the mother determination. Viability the SCOTUS ballparked for the time of the decision but noted as medical science improved that figure may naturally be adjusted downward.
    The constitution is not a dictionary. It doesn't define anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You are aware that a SCOTUS decision can be overturned right? Roe dealt with the privacy of a woman, and encompassed the abortion question in murky, and questionable language that is being dealt with constantly. Sooner, or later the question of women killing the unborn out of convenience will be addressed. Right now, it may be legal to kill the unborn, but as we make laws that hold one standard for perpetrators of crime, and a different standard to those that kill the unborn because of irresponsibility, and moral vacuousness can only be seen clearly for what it is, gross hypocrisy.
    You are aware that RvW has not been overturned, right?

    RvW dealt with several arguments, not just the privacy of a woman and the language they used is extremely clear.

    And the constitution does not grant the govt the power to enforce morality, particularly the deranged morality of the religious right
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Roe v Wade does NOT say that. It simply allows for their legal killing during the window before viability.
    I most certainly does say that. Clearly and explicitely

    In short, the unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons - Roe v Wade
    And it allows for abortions up until the moment of birth. Under RvW, abortions can not be banned. Not ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The constitution is not a dictionary. It doesn't define anything.
    I disagree. It certainly is not a dictionary, but it does define many things.

    define |diˈfīn| verb
    1. state or describe exactly the nature, scope, or meaning of:
    2. mark out the boundary or limits of: (as adj. defined)

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The constitution is not a dictionary. It doesn't define anything.
    And yet here you are assuming it does:

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha
    None of the laws you cited change the finding that under the constitution, the unborn are not persons and therefore have no right to life
    Are you now saying the justices whom you mistakenly believe decided personhood with Roe v Wade making that definition up out of wholecloth?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The constitution is not a dictionary. It doesn't define anything.
    Oh, it defines a lot.

    Do you really need examples?

    The simple fact you can have an opinion without being murdered by the government is a prime example. You definitely have the right to free speech.

    But I suppose that was the whole point of the Bill of Rights and Constitution as a whole - to define "stuff."

    Yeah....

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    I disagree. It certainly is not a dictionary, but it does define many things.

    define |diˈfīn| verb
    1. state or describe exactly the nature, scope, or meaning of:
    2. mark out the boundary or limits of: (as adj. defined)
    And when it comes to "defining" the law, the constitution gives that power to SCOTUS.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    ... Viability the SCOTUS ballparked for the time of the decision but noted as medical science improved that figure may naturally be adjusted downward.
    The limit of viabilty is 24 weeks gesrtation and has remained unchanged for the last 12 years.

    From wiki:

    [B]The limit of viability is the gestational age at which a prematurely born fetus/infant has a 50% chance of long-term survival outside its mother's womb. With the support of neonatal intensive care units, the limit of viability in the developed world has declined since 50 years ago, but has remained unchanged in the last 12 years.[8][9]

    Currently the limit of viability is considered to be around 24 weeks although the incidence of major disabilities remains high at this point.

    [10][11] Neonatologists generally would not provide intensive care at 23 weeks, but would from 26 weeks.[12][13]

    During the past several decades, neonatal care has improved with advances in medical science, and therefore the limit of viability has moved earlier.[14] As of 2006, the two youngest children to survive premature birth are thought to be James Elgin Gill (born on 20 May 1987 in Ottawa, Canada, at 21 weeks and 5 days gestational age),[15][16] and Amillia Taylor (born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestational age).[17][18] Both children were born just under 22 weeks from fertilization, or a few days past the midpoint of an average full-term pregnancy.

    Amillia Taylor is also often cited as the most-premature baby.[17] She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestation.[19] At birth, she was 9 inches (22.86 cm) long and weighed 10 ounces (283 grams).[17] She suffered digestive and respiratory problems, together with a brain hemorrhage. She was discharged from the Baptist Children's Hospital on 20 February 2007.[17]
    Fetal viability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And yet here you are assuming it does:



    Are you now saying the justices whom you mistakenly believe decided personhood with Roe v Wade making that definition up out of wholecloth?
    No, I'm not
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Oh, it defines a lot.

    Do you really need examples?

    The simple fact you can have an opinion without being murdered by the government is a prime example. You definitely have the right to free speech.

    But I suppose that was the whole point of the Bill of Rights and Constitution as a whole - to define "stuff."

    Yeah....
    The constitution does not define "free", "speech" or the term "free speech".
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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