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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Under the law, the word "person" refers to a human that has been born
    Again, that's not true:
    As used in this section, the term `unborn child' means a child in utero, and the term `child in utero' or `child, who is in utero' means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.'.

    Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 -- Laci and Conner's Law

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Actually no. That's an individual state's decision. Here's a listing of states and their definitions of person where it comes to the unborn. The real state of affairs is that some states define the unborn as a person, some do not.
    Those laws do not apply to abortion. We're talking about abortion. Please find something relevant to post
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Again, that's not true:
    "As used in this section" means that the word person does not apply to abortion or whether the unborn have rights under the constitution
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You're citing the argument which was made by the pro-life side; an argument that SCOTUS rejected.
    I don't think I'm making the point clear.

    SCOTUS rejected it 40 years ago, and rightfully so, imo. 40 years ago the unborn had no established legal standing.

    It's been 40 years now. The law has changed. The unborn now have legal standing.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Those laws do not apply to abortion. We're talking about abortion. Please find something relevant to post
    They do in this context where the law at discussion limits the permitted abortion window. But you go on as usual and ignore anything that doesn't fit your script.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Who here beleives 12 weeks is a fair amount of time for a female who is pregnaunt to get a abortion who here disagrees

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    She will be arrested as a prostitute. She can use that explanation with the judge but she might still go to jail.
    That still doesn't change that she could make the decision herself to do with her own body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    -- I certainly never said ALL these children but if they were allowed to be born at least they would have a chance to live in a happy caring home.
    That's the idealised picture, but what is the reality? Can you enumerate the chance of a happy family home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If they find they are not happy then perhaps they can later self abort


    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps these children should also should have some rights over their bodies.
    They do once they pass 24 weeks within the womb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    -- Explain what? It seems I was quite clear.
    You claimed abortion was immoral, can you explain why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    -- I have no idea, but should we abort babies because you don't know which home they might go to? I'm sure there are people who have an understanding of where children are wanted and have homes available for these babies.
    "We" don't abort babies, women do for a variety of reasons. Very few could be called "immoral." The point remains that making women carry through to full term the 50 million babies would have an impact on society through large numbers of babies ending up in care homes.

    If there were no children in care homes because they were being found safe good homes very quickly, you might have a point but you don't. Facts on the ground don't support you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    -- It seems clear they would. Those babies who were aborted are also those who would grow up to be taxpayers to support the social programs initiated by the same people who expect these social programs. Who is to pay for these programs if we are killing millions of the next generation?
    You are presupposing. Firstly those children have to be cared for in care homes, then the expense of finding, vetting and transferring to family homes if they exist in the numbers that equal the number of children who would be born.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No need to cry just because I called you out on your hyperbole.
    Hm. the 20 week pregnancy check is hyperbole.... riiiight. Steps away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Even when abortion was illegal, most abortions were performed by doctors in their office. What you meant to say was "back ally", not "back room", meaning the doctor would let the patient into the office through an ally exit so as not to be seen. It doesn't mean the abortion was performed in an ally.

    Back-ally abortion;
    "Back room", "back street", "back yard" and "back alley" are all expressions used in the UK. I suppose you have to cling to the one point you think you have over me.

    Someone even wrote a book called "Back Rooms, Voices from the Illegal Abortion Era" but let's just call this more "hyperbole."



    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    How does it not?
    Don't worry, we'll just agree that things like the 20 week anomaly scan and all the medical problems that are scanned for are hyperbole.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I don't think I'm making the point clear.

    SCOTUS rejected it 40 years ago, and rightfully so, imo. 40 years ago the unborn had no established legal standing.

    It's been 40 years now. The law has changed. The unborn now have legal standing.
    Wrong

    None of the laws you cited change the finding that under the constitution, the unborn are not persons and therefore have no right to life
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    "As used in this section" means that the word person does not apply to abortion or whether the unborn have rights under the constitution
    That's for SCOTUS to decide.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    They do in this context where the law at discussion limits the permitted abortion window. But you go on as usual and ignore anything that doesn't fit your script.
    No, they don't

    State laws do not overturn the constitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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