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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    More like the Surpreme Courts opinion.

    Unborn victims of violence refers to feticide which is an act against a fetus not an act against a person.
    However, it is charged as murder, a capitol crime....Are we now to niggle over methods to kill the unborn?
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    It does not confict as abortions are concidered legal and the wording to exempt legal abortions is in the feticide laws.
    For now.
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Originally Posted by sangha

    A fetus is not a person
    That's your opinion. If that is indeed the case than you need to justify the federal law surrounding the Unborn victims of violence act then.

    Defin person....people have memories can think outside the primal thouhts of food . what keeps a animal from being consider a person. a fetus is not a peson it is a atchatment of the parent untill it is born. Violence against unborn children is a violence against something that is part of the parent , but if you hurt something that is verry dear to a person especaily if it is going to be a future person that he/she who acted violently causing pain to the mother and possibly death to the fetus should be charged with something.

    12 weks is close to the end of the first trimester you should know if your pregnaunt bye then so should have already decide if you want/ need a abortion by then.

    The real debate would be if its right to not insure abortions

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Citation, and again,
    Roe v Wade

    address the question of the Unborn Victims of Violence act, or I'll assume that you can't and are therefore talking out of an orifice other than the one generally meant for speaking.
    The perp is not allowed to perform an abortion on a woman without that womans consent.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    However, it is charged as murder, a capitol crime....Are we now to niggle over methods to kill the unborn?
    It's called "enhanced sentencing"

    It's not uncommon for circumstances to result in a completely different charge
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    Originally Posted by sangha

    A fetus is not a person
    That's your opinion. If that is indeed the case than you need to justify the federal law surrounding the Unborn victims of violence act then.

    Defin person....people have memories can think outside the primal thouhts of food . what keeps a animal from being consider a person. a fetus is not a peson it is a atchatment of the parent untill it is born. Violence against unborn children is a violence against something that is part of the parent , but if you hurt something that is verry dear to a person especaily if it is going to be a future person that he/she who acted violently causing pain to the mother and possibly death to the fetus should be charged with something.

    12 weks is close to the end of the first trimester you should know if your pregnaunt bye then so should have already decide if you want/ need a abortion by then.

    The real debate would be if its right to not insure abortions
    Under the law, the word "person" refers to a human that has been born
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Again, the fact is that SCOTUS clearly stated that, under the law, a fetus is not a person
    No, SCOTUS did not say that.

    SCOTUS said:
    ROE v. WADE, Section 9a:
    "A. The appellee and certain amici argue that the fetus is a "person" within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment. In support of this, they outline at length and in detail the well-known facts of fetal development. If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case, of course, collapses , [410 U.S. 113, 157] for the fetus' right to life would then be guaranteed specifically by the Amendment. The appellant conceded as much on reargument. 51 On the other hand, the appellee conceded on reargument 52 that no case could be cited that holds that a fetus is a person within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment ."
    SCOTUS said the unborn was not treated as a person by the law, at the time the ruling was made. It's been 40 years...the law has changed since that ruling. Today, the unborn is treated as a 'person' under the 14th amendment. Lacey and Conner's Law is an example of that.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Roe v Wade



    The perp is not allowed to perform an abortion on a woman without that womans consent.

    Really Video: Forced sterilization in America – Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No, SCOTUS did not say that.

    SCOTUS said:

    SCOTUS said the unborn was not treated as a person by the law, at the time the ruling was made. It's been 40 years...the law has changed since that ruling. Today, the unborn is treated as a 'person' under the 14th amendment. Lacey and Conner's Law is an example of that.
    You're citing the argument which was made by the pro-life side; an argument that SCOTUS rejected.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Under the law, the word "person" refers to a human that has been born
    Actually no. That's an individual state's decision. Here's a listing of states and their definitions of person where it comes to the unborn. The real state of affairs is that some states define the unborn as a person, some do not.

    This law in Arkansas fits with their state's definition of person:

    Ark. Stat. Ann. 5-1-102(13) defines "person," as used in 5-10-101 through 5-10-105, to include an unborn child of 12 weeks or more gestation. The law specifies that these provisions do not apply to an act that causes the death of an unborn child in utero if the act was committed during a legal abortion to which the woman consented, an act committed pursuant to a usual and customary standard of medical practice during testing or treatment, or an act committed in the course of medical research, experimental medicine or an act deemed necessary to save the life or preserve the health of the woman.
    Ark. Stat. Ann. 5-10-101 through 5-10-105 define capital murder, murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, manslaughter and negligent homicide.

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