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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps.

    Then why not say what they mean? The two are not connected. No one is questioning the reproductive rights, the right to reproduce. It's abortions, the ending of the production for a living being that is causing the concern.
    The right to privacy was settled by the Supreme Court in 1965 and that set the precedent for the Roe vs. Wade decision.
    I think the Supreme Court was very wise in decision since they chose viability as the point in which states could take a compelling interest in the " potential person". Before viability a fetus can not live apart from the woman. If she dies it dies no matter how much medical help the pre viable fetus gets. Until viability the fetus can only grow by using the blood and other nutrients in the woman's body just like her arms, legs, and organs do.


    That has always been the case and no one is interfering with a families right to plan on the number of children they want. Families have always had this right and it's always been as private as they've wanted it to be.
    Families have not always had that right. As I pointed out Connecticut had a law in the 1960's that required any couple that wanted to use BIrth control need to get counseling before they could buy Birth control pills. That case went to SC and was stricken down
    because the Surpreme Court determined people had the right to privacy.
    Last edited by minnie616; 03-08-13 at 03:38 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The right to privacy was settled by the Supreme Court in 1965 and that set the precedent for the Roe vs. Wade decision.
    That is not in dispute, although nowhere in the Constitution does the word 'abortion' appear. This was an activist court, usurping the power from State rights.

    I think the Supreme Court was very wise in decision since they chose viability as the point in which states could take a compelling interest in the " potential person". Before viability a fetus can not live apart from the woman. If she dies it dies no matter how much medical help the pre viable fetus gets. Until viability the fetus can only grow by using the blood and other nutrients in the woman's body just like her arms, legs, and organs do.
    The Supreme Court should involve themselves in the law as it relates to the Constitution and not involve themselves in medicine, an area in which they are not trained.

    Families have not always had that right. As I pointed out Connecticut had a law in the 1960's that required any couple that wanted to use BIrth control need to get counseling before they could buy Birth control pills. That case went to SC and was stricken down because the Surpreme Court determined people had the right to privacy.
    That was a bad law and should have been struck down.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That is not in dispute, although nowhere in the Constitution does the word 'abortion' appear. This was an activist court, usurping the power from State rights.
    The word "immigration" also does not appear in the Constitution. Do you deny the govt the power to regulate immigration, or do you believe the govt can't stop anyone from entering the country?


    The Supreme Court should involve themselves in the law as it relates to the Constitution and not involve themselves in medicine, an area in which they are not trained.
    If you read Roe v Wade, you'd see that they did exactly what you say they should do.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    "Back room abortion" is something called "a figure of speech" and is not meant to be taken literally, just as "Just as a point" is a reference to an argument, not something with a tapering end or a mathematical concept indicating a location with no dimensions
    It has no meaning. I know some folks here would like to to mean something negative, but it doesn't. All medical procedures are don behind a veil of secrecy. It's called "privacy".

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    For legal purposes, the law defines when a fetus becomes a person, and that happens when the fetus is born
    Exactly.

    Some conclusions in Roe vs. Wade decision:
    With respect to the State's important and legitimate interest in potential life, the "compelling" point is at viability.
    This is so because the fetus then presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother's womb. State regulation protective of fetal life after viability thus has both logical and biological justifications. If the State is interested in protecting fetal life after viability, it may go so far as to proscribe abortion during that period, except when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother.

    <SNIP>
    OUTLINE OF KEY POINTS

    Roe v. Wade is a LEGAL ruling, not a moral analysis. It deals with the legal question of whether abortion, as a medical procedure, is constitutionally protected. Roe. v. Wade argues that
    in the absence of explicit legal rights for fetuses, and with a Constitutional implication against the existence of such rights, the court (and state legislatures!) had no reason to treat abortion differently from other health procedures, particularly contraception.

    Three key points:

    A fetus in not a PERSON under U.S. law.
    Persons have rights under the Constitution, and it is clear that the authors of the Constitution and its amendments did not regard fetuses as persons. In order to say that fetuses are persons under U.S. law, the Constitution would have to be amended to say so. Therefore the intentional killing of a fetus does not have same legal status as the killing of a person.

    States can create laws to protect citizens from harmful practices, and it can ban medical procedures that are harmful. When abortion was initially banned by most states, it was a dangerous procedure. Medically, it is now safer than childbirth. Therefore there is no longer a good reason for states to ban it as a medical practice.

    Since 1891, the U.S. has recognized a right to privacy in some "zones" of activity, which means that individuals can make decisions and act upon them without informing other people and without state interference. (Example: Your discussions with your lawyer are private and confidential.) The court has previously recognized that adult women have a privacy right when it comes to contraception and reproduction.



    Conclusion: Because fetuses are not legally protected and abortion is a safe medical procedure protected by privacy rights, adult women have the right to receive an abortion in the first six months of pregnancy, and states can only interfere where the interference is appropriate to the woman's health.
    Roe v Wade - edited text
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It has no meaning. I know some folks here would like to to mean something negative, but it doesn't. All medical procedures are don behind a veil of secrecy. It's called "privacy".
    "back room abortions" refer to abortions that are performed but aren't subjected to the normal regulations and inspections that other medical procedures are subject to because of laws which criminalixe abortion.

    I would also note that the original term was "back alley abortions" because women were often told to enter the doctors office through the back alley to avoid detection.

    And privacy is not the same as secrecy, though there is a lot of overlap.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Conclusion: Because fetuses are not legally protected and abortion is a safe medical procedure protected by privacy rights, adult women have the right to receive an abortion in the first six months of pregnancy, and states can only interfere where the interference is appropriate to the woman's health.
    Then why stop at six months? Does the woman's rights expire after six months? Why not seven or eight months? Is there an expiration limit on privacy?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then why stop at six months? Does the woman's rights expire after six months? Why not seven or eight months? Is there an expiration limit on privacy?
    Why don't you read Roe v Wade? They explain in detail why the govt has the power to regulate abortion once the fetus becomes viable.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I think the funds for abortions is segregated at Planned Parenthood I know that when Kormen donated monies to PP those funds were set aside for cancer screening. Many people donate monies
    to PP and ask that funds would be used toward helping women fund abortions or some ask that their funds be used to birth control more affordable for the poor.
    Other donations with no requests goes into their general funds.
    At the very least PP should be investigated....

    "Planned Parenthood has spent much of the last few years demanding that taxpayers add millions more to their coffers, citing their non-profit status and so-called focus on women's health. What have we received for our money? While government subsidies to Planned Parenthood have reached an all-time high, so too has the number of lives ended by this profit-driven abortion business. Destroying nearly one million children in three years is not healthcare and does not reflect a concern for vulnerable women and girls. As Planned Parenthood's funding goes up, abortions increase and real health services for women go down.

    "As if these numbers weren't already horrifying, Planned Parenthood has upped the ante even further by mandating that all affiliates provide abortions beginning this year. Americans are sick and tired of underwriting the nation's largest abortion business. We call on Congress to immediately investigate and defund Planned Parenthood."

    Planned Parenthood has stressed that it provides healthcare and preventative services to indigent women. But Mallory Quigley with SBA List tells OneNewsNow that this latest annual report is telling.

    "Contraception services dropped by 12 percent since 2009, and cancer-screening and prevention services dropped by 29 percent," she points out. "So Planned Parenthood spent much of the last couple of years making the case for why they should receive taxpayer funding and really relying on taxpayers to fill up their coffers -- and they're not providing the healthcare services that they claim."

    According to Quigley, that "absolutely" means more of the federal money going to Planned Parenthood is freed up to perform abortions.

    "Money is completely fungible -- and as we've seen, as their taxpayer funding has increased over the last three years so has the number of abortions that they provide," she explains. "And all the while, the healthcare services and their so-called 'focus on women's health' has declined."

    Quigley adds that Planned Parenthood does 145 abortions for every adoption referral, which she says is indicative of the organization's priorities.

    Jim Sedlak with American Life League comments on the record number of abortion reported.

    "They've had an increase of about 4,000 more babies that they've killed. Planned Parenthood now kills over 900 babies a day in their own facilities, so every three days they kill the same number of innocent human beings who died on September 11, 2001, in the terrorist attacks on the United States."

    And regarding the record amount of taxpayer funding: "They reported that for the latest year, they received $542 million," notes Sedlak. "So Planned Parenthood has increased another $60 million last year -- and of course the gates are about to open wide as ObamaCare gets implemented and Planned Parenthood gets millions more."

    The ALL spokesman notes that Planned Parenthood two years ago said that as of January 2013 "every single one of their affiliates had to have a clinic that did abortions." That, he says, makes the organization the largest abortion-provider in the nation -- mostly at taxpayer expense.

    Planned Parenthood: Record year for abortions, taxpayer funding
    Obamacare requires every American to purchase health insurance, it requires every state to establish health insurance exchanges, and it dramatically expands Medicaid. Each of these – private health insurances programs, exchanges, and Medicaid – can, and in some case are required to, provide coverage for abortion. The result is hundreds of millions of dollars being funneled to the abortion industry every year and the greatest expansion of abortion since Roe v. Wade.

    In fact, the law specifically provides that state health exchanges may cover abortions unless the state enacts specific legislation prohibiting abortion coverage. Moreover, the law’s requirement that insurance providers cover “preventive services” and preventative care are so broadly defined that they could be used to force coverage of abortions and abortion related drugs. Thus, all Americans are forced to purchase health insurance that could cover abortion and in some cases is required to cover abortion.

    How ObamaCare uses Taxpayer Money to Pay for Abortions | ObamaCare, American Center for Law and Justice ACLJ
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That is not in dispute, although nowhere in the Constitution does the word 'abortion' appear. This was an activist court, usurping the power from State rights....
    The Court ruled in favor of the Roe vs Wade by a 5 to 2 vote.
    The Roe v. Wade (1973) decision was written by Republican appointee Harry Blackmun and he was joined by fellow Republican appointees Potter Stewart, Lewis Powell, and Warren Burger.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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