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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Do you have a link to a US example of this law please? I know an MP tried to bring in a private member's bill in 2008 here following cases of the murder of pregnant girlfriends in Canada but it didn't become law and even then the MP wanted his bill to apply only to wanted fetuses, not the unwanted.
    Sure, hope this helps.

    The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if he or she is injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".[1]
    The law is codified in two sections of the United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), 1841 (18 USC 1841) and Title 10, Chapter 22 (Uniform Code of Military Justice) 919a (Article 119a).
    The law applies only to certain offenses over which the United States government has jurisdiction, including certain crimes committed on Federal properties, against certain Federal officials and employees, and by members of the military. In addition, it covers certain crimes that are defined by statute as federal offenses wherever they occur, no matter who commits them, such as certain crimes of terrorism.
    Because of principles of federalism embodied in the United States Constitution, Federal criminal law does not apply to crimes prosecuted by the individual states. However, 36 states also recognize the fetus or "unborn child" as a crime victim, at least for purposes of homicide or feticide.[2]
    The legislation was both hailed and vilified by various legal observers who interpreted the measure as a step toward granting legal personhood to human fetuses, even though the bill explicitly contained a provision excepting abortion, stating that the bill would not "be construed to permit the prosecution" "of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf", "of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child" or "of any woman with respect to her unborn child."

    Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    You what? How on earth does that respond to my answers?
    How does it not?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i have asked this question over and over, .....but i get no real answer from the left.

    if a woman has a right to her body, to do as she please, becuase it is her body.

    then does not a person have the right to do with their personal property, as they chose, since it is also their property?
    People don't have the right to do as they please with their body or their property. They cant choose to use their body (or their property) to kill other people

    But people have the right to decide which medical procedures they will consent to and which they will not.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No way to prove that though. PP can say all they want that they don't use taxpayer funds in their abortion side, but the funds are not segregated, and therefore, since money is fungible, I'd be more than willing to bet that it is indeed the case that taxpayer money goes for abortion.
    I think the funds for abortions is segregated at Planned Parenthood I know that when Kormen donated monies to PP those funds were set aside for cancer screening. Many people donate monies
    to PP and ask that funds would be used toward helping women fund abortions or some ask that their funds be used to birth control more affordable for the poor.
    Other donations with no requests goes into their general funds.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    No taxpayer monies are used for abortions as the Hyde amendment forbids using taxpayer monies for abortions
    .Perhaps.

    I don't understand what you are trying to say in your last sentence.
    It seems clear.


    Right to privacy means reproductive rights.
    Then why not say what they mean? The two are not connected. No one is questioning the reproductive rights, the right to reproduce. It's abortions, the ending of the production for a living being that is causing the concern.

    The right to privacy means they get to plan their families, they get to plan the number of children they want, how far apart they want their children etc.
    That has always been the case and no one is interfering with a families right to plan on the number of children they want. Families have always had this right and it's always been as private as they've wanted it to be.
    Last edited by Grant; 03-08-13 at 03:11 PM.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    sorry i should have added something to my statement, is not my personal property mind to do as i please ,---->as long as i do not infringe on the rights of other people.
    Abortions do not infringe on the rights of any other person
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Just as a point...aren't all medical procedures performed in a "back room"? I mean, have you ever seen any non-emergency procedure carried out in the lobby?
    "Back room abortion" is something called "a figure of speech" and is not meant to be taken literally, just as "Just as a point" is a reference to an argument, not something with a tapering end or a mathematical concept indicating a location with no dimensions
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am asking a simple question, does one's personal property, belong to them to do anything with it, as long as the rights of another person are not violated?
    The answer is no
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cable View Post
    Thanks Minnie. Do you have some biblical or even scientific basis for forming your opinion as to when a fetus is a person?
    For legal purposes, the law defines when a fetus becomes a person, and that happens when the fetus is born
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I understand where you are going with this, however, one argument may well be that although you have a right to be secure in your person from unreasonable search, and or seizure, the moment you are talking about a separate life, as in the child growing inside you, that person has the same right to be secure.
    A fetus is not a person
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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