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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

  1. #131
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cable View Post
    I appreciate your thoughtful response Minnie.
    I have to disagree with your thoughts on an unborn child. While I understand there are times when an unborn child is not going to make it due to deformities or similar circumstances, these circumstances do not have anything to do with the decision of a mother to end the life of her unborn child. Your experience that you've provided does not say anything meaningful about an unborn child's personhood. There are documented instances of an "aborted" child being born alive and surviving. I had a friend who was born at 6 months, and he survived and seems to be doing fine. Other children in this country are aborted at that age in the womb. This fact is more than tragic in my mind. The simple fact is that we don't know at what point a fetus becomes a person. Many will make arbitrary decisions about it, but the simple fact is we don't know the instant. In my mind, because we are dealing with a human life, we must err on the side of caution in this regard.
    I have a firm belief in a Creator, my God. I believe that our lives are created at conception, our life, our spirit, our soul. This is why I believe that abortion at any point is just dead wrong, forgive the pun.
    I can understand that those who do not believe in God, see no wrong here. Honestly, in that world there really isn't anything ever wrong to do, just illegal or unpopular. Right or wrong is no longer the question.

    Regarding your signature, I'll stand somewhat corrected. By itself it is a wonderful statement. Coupled with a pro-abortion stance, it just seems horrific to me. It's interesting what context will do to a simple statement.
    As I have stated before I agree with Roe vs Wade that once viability is reached ( the limit of viability is 24 weeks and has remained unchanged for the last 12 years) abortions should only take place in the extreme cases. In fact less than .08 of all legal abortions that take place in USA occur at or after 24 weeks gestation. They are the extreme cases. The cases where the woman's life or irreparable damage to a major bodily function will occur if the pregnancy were allowed to continue , where the fetus died a natural death in womb and was not expelled ( yes , removing a dead fetus from a womb is also called abortion and is counted as part that .08 percent if it occurs after 24 weeks gestation ) where it will be stillborn or is so deformed it will only live a few minutes or hours.

    Since partial birth was banned back when President G W Bush was President no legal abortion will result in a live birth.
    We can all be thankful for that.

    I also am a firm believer in God. I am a Christian and the church I belong to and I do not believe that life or ensoulment begins at conception. We believe it happens later in the pregnancy. We support the right for a woman to choose to have an early abortion.

    Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
    I understand and respect your your opinion we just disagree on when ensoulment and personhood begins.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    constutional law states according to madison, states..... my property rights are as strong as my right to free speech.

    can (federal law) take away my natural right to free speech, and can federal law take away my natural right to my property.
    Currently, yes.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cable View Post
    Currently, yes.
    how can federal law, overide constutitonal law?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Do you believe that a human being can be another's, "personal property"?
    that is not what i am asking, is my property, land, business, home,car, mine to do as i please, if i do not violate the rights of any other person?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    As I have stated before I agree with Roe vs Wade that once viability is reached....
    The question of "viability" is a common excuse of those supporting elective abortion of convenience. Now, I am not saying that you are one, nor am I suggesting that this response is proposed in any sort of slight in your direction, but, if we are to accept 'scientific theory' as fact, then life begins at the cellular level, therefore, the moment that cell divides, and attaches to the uterine wall then it is life, and since it won't gestate into a dog, cat, cow, or any other life other than a human being, then the protection of the constitution should apply to it from the start, IMHO.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But we are not talking about your land, or your machinery, or any other non biological entity here. We are talking about an unborn child, in the womb. The most defenseless among us. When do natural rights occur?
    i am using my question as a precurser to the question of rights of a person.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that is not what i am asking, is my property, land, business, home,car, mine to do as i please, if i do not violate the rights of any other person?
    Then I would suggest that you are in the wrong thread. This one is about the AR law stopping abortion at 12 weeks. Further, even though your question as defined by you here is off topic, I will say that Yes, your property is YOURS. Or at least by theory is your to do with as you please...However, we both know that progressive policy in this country has chipped away at that for a century.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post

    I also am a firm believer in God. I am a Christian and the church I belong to and I do not believe that life or ensoulment begins at conception. We believe it happens later in the pregnancy. We support the right for a woman to choose to have an early abortion.

    Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
    I understand and respect your your opinion we just disagree on when ensoulment and personhood begins.
    Thanks Minnie. Do you have some biblical or even scientific basis for forming your opinion as to when a fetus is a person?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then I would suggest that you are in the wrong thread. This one is about the AR law stopping abortion at 12 weeks. Further, even though your question as defined by you here is off topic, I will say that Yes, your property is YOURS. Or at least by theory is your to do with as you please...However, we both know that progressive policy in this country has chipped away at that for a century.
    what iam asking it really a doubled edge sword, and no one will answer.

    it has been stated you have a (right to privacy) according to a 1960 USSC decison...which means-----------> being secure in your person, your body.

    if you have a right to be secure in you person, which is your property, becuase ...you own you.

    do you have a right to YOUR property, what ever that property may be.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    how can federal law override constitutional law?
    If we can figure that out we might get back the heart, soul, and spirit of the country as it was intended.
    These Progressives are a devious lot. They have figured out how to play the middle against both ends.

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