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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nonsense. The terminology you are proscribing here is emotion based to inflame only.

    And you don't think the term Pro-Abortion isn't emotion based to inflame?

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Like I said, I am not PRO-abortion, I am just not for making it illegal for someone else.
    This sentence does not parse, as it directly self-contradicts.

    If the latter half of the sentence is true, the first half of the sentence is false.

    Is it accurate to say you are pro-drunk driving since you don't want alcohol illegal for everyone? No, it isn't. so your lable IS inaccurate.
    Non-sequitur. It would be accurate to say that I favor keeping the sale of alcohol legal, I would be pro-alcohol or anti-prohibition.

    Your pro-drunk driving label is like his pro-rape label, several steps removed from the item specifically talked about.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    J-Mac often posts absurd and false statements - the only you were responding to in particular probably hundreds of times - just to try to bait people. He knows his statement is false and he knows what the response is.
    No, that is false, and further I don't understand why you must personally attack me in speaking to another poster here. I am trying my hardest to keep my conversation civil in this thread, and if any "baiting" is being done, it is by you with posting like this.

    If you feel I am breaking any rules in this regard, then my suggestion is that you report it.
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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    This sentence does not parse, as it directly self-contradicts.

    If the latter half of the sentence is true, the first half of the sentence is false.
    Religious people are against irresponsible drinking yes? However, if they are not willing to make alcohol illegal then they are not pro-irresponsible drinking. Calling people Pro-Choice is an ACCURATE term, calling them pro-abortion is nothing more than to inflame and is innacuate.

    Non-sequitur. It would be accurate to say that I favor keeping the sale of alcohol legal, I would be pro-alcohol or anti-prohibition.

    Your pro-drunk driving label is like his pro-rape label, several steps removed from the item specifically talked about.
    Calling someone pro-abortion when they wouldn't approve one themselves is not accurate. If I am not willing to ok an abortion myself, that doesn't make me pro-abortion.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I fully understand what the pro side is of those in favor of abortion on demand. However, that choice is made before the act that results in a pregnancy to begin with. On this I don't think we will see eye to eye.
    I agree to respectfully disagree. I do not feel a happily married couple should have to give up the marriage bed when they want to space their children so the woman is healthy enough to care for her little ones.
    We do not have a 100 percent effective goof proof birth control product with no side effects yet.

    Therefore an oops pregnancy can happen.
    In fact over 60 percent of all women who have early abortions have at least 1 child. They are mothers.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Religious people are against irresponsible drinking yes? However, if they are not willing to make alcohol illegal then they are not pro-irresponsible drinking. Calling people Pro-Choice is an ACCURATE term, calling them pro-abortion is nothing more than to inflame and is innacuate.
    No, "pro-choice" is a blatantly RIDICULOUS term implying something false about both those who claim it and those who do not support abortion.

    In broad terms, virtually everyone likes freedom of choice. Not everyone is keen on "freedom of choice" including the choice to commit the homicide of an innocent without legal consequence.

    To simplify, people who want freedom of choice, like myself, usually want laws to ban violence.

    Calling someone pro-abortion when they wouldn't approve one themselves is not accurate. If I am not willing to ok an abortion myself, that doesn't make me pro-abortion.
    If you favor the legality of abortion, you are pro-abortion. At most, your semantics is worth a pro-(legal) abortion, but the parenthetical goes without saying.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    No one said anything about subsidizing an abortion ( an abortion is not murder under the law no matter how you feel about it)
    Can you assure me with fact and figures that tax money given to PP for example, is absolutely fire walled from subsidizing abortion? The answer is honestly NO. Money is fungible, and PP routinely either hides, or blocks access to their accounting.

    No the right to privacy does not end when a woman has sex. The right to privacy is about reproduction.
    Human life, is human life. A baby at 23 weeks should have the right to live. Like I said no one is taking away your right to reproduce.

    A woman along with husband/ lover/ boyfriend has the right to choose when they are ready to have children, how many children they want , and how far apart to space them.
    Absolutely. And there are an abundance of contraceptive choices out there that have well into the high 90% range of effectiveness, even higher when two are used in concert with each other. So the risk of pregnancy is extremely low if the proper choice is made. This argument that because people are irresponsible in their action, so we need to provide that the result of that act that creates life should be an exception to killing it is regretful.

    Take the case of the happily married faithful wife who shares the marriage bed with husband.
    They have a baby whom they love dearly but the pregnancy did cause health problems for the woman which she is still struggling with.

    The woman loves her husband and faithfully takes her birth control because they want to share the marriage bed and their love for each other.

    What if the birth control fails?

    According to you she made her choice because she was a loving, and faithful wife. You think
    She needs to continue the pregnancy even though she will not be healthy enough to take of baby she already has.
    I advocate no such thing. And as such have repeated many times in this thread alone that exceptions for rape, incest, and health reasons to the mother should be considered. You are making the wrong assertion here that it is either all or nothing. That is a false choice that is not on the table as far as I am concerned.

    On the other hand if she had an early legal abortion and was able to wait another year or so until she is healthier she could continue to be a good mother who can take good care of her baby and be loving and caring wife to her husband.
    And that is a decision that is between her, her husband, and their OBGYN. The purpose of an example like this is not the norm in elective abortion today. In fact, by your own figures it is about 10%. That leaves 90% that are pure killing for convenience.
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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And you don't think the term Pro-Abortion isn't emotion based to inflame?
    No, I think it is an accurate description....False terminology like "pro choice" is meant to mask what it is that side of the argument is for...I mean, can not "pro choice" also mean the choice to keep the baby?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I agree to respectfully disagree.
    That's fair. And I do want to thank you for a largely respectful debate thus far. I do not agree with many of your views on the subject, but I think we are doing pretty good discussing it so far considering the volatility of the subject.

    I do not feel a happily married couple should have to give up the marriage bed when they want to space their children so the woman is healthy enough to care for her little ones.
    Nor would I...But it doesn't have to be an all or nothing divide.

    We do not have a 100 percent effective goof proof birth control product with no side effects yet.
    True, but I would say we are about as close as anything in life...Care should be taken in many things we do hap hazardly....

    Therefore an oops pregnancy can happen.
    Yep, that's true...Still doesn't grant the right to snuff out that life though.

    In fact over 60 percent of all women who have early abortions have at least 1 child. They are mothers.
    Then they more than single women should know the result of unprotected sex.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    ?..

    Nor would I...But it doesn't have to be an all or nothing divide.
    Yes, it does have to be an all or nothing divide.
    True, but I would say we are about as close as anything in life...Care should be taken in many things we do hap hazardly....
    Even with used correctly birth control pills fail 1 to 3 percent of the time and many women can not take the pill.
    Even when condoms are used correctly they can fail 1 to 5 percent of time.

    Therefore if a happily married couple needs to space their children due to her having high risk pregnancies ...yes they would have to give up the marriage bed and live celebrate lives until she is healthy enough to have another pregnancy.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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