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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    IMO, abortion is the murder of a human being in the early stage of it's developement. No civilized country should allow that. This is why it is so dangerous to trivialize sexual intercourse in the way our culture has. There are reactions to the action, one of which being pregnancy. Like I posted to another user, the woman has a responsibility to think of that before engaging in sex with someone. Like it or not, women have the burden in this deal. Men can get a woman pregnant and disappear without ever having to worry about the repercussions.

    Abortion can be legislated. It merely takes level headed politicians to do so. So, in other words, we'll never see it happen.
    I hope you're wrong. I've thought a lot about the trivializing of sexual intercourse too. I contributed to it and to the general coarsening of society through casual swearing and etc., and now I regret it because I'm old enough to have both been a part of all that and to recognize the sad consequences of it.

    It's very disheartening to read the posts in the Abortion forum here in which people state sincerely that just because you choose to have sex doesn't mean you choose to accept the biological reality that you could become a father or mother. The disconnect is bizarre.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    IMO, abortion is the murder of a human being in the early stage of it's developement. No civilized country should allow that. This is why it is so dangerous to trivialize sexual intercourse in the way our culture has. There are reactions to the action, one of which being pregnancy. Like I posted to another user, the woman has a responsibility to think of that before engaging in sex with someone. Like it or not, women have the burden in this deal. Men can get a woman pregnant and disappear without ever having to worry about the repercussions.

    Abortion can be legislated. It merely takes level headed politicians to do so. So, in other words, we'll never see it happen.
    Bureaucrats always have ulterior motives.

    North Dakota is a great example of why politicians shouldn't be involved in this at all. Abortion after 6 weeks is illegal regardless of the health of the child, or mother. Regardless whether she was raped.

    They won't take the time and make common sense legislation so they shouldn't be involved in such a delicate matter.
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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I hope you're wrong. I've thought a lot about the trivializing of sexual intercourse too. I contributed to it and to the general coarsening of society through casual swearing and etc., and now I regret it because I'm old enough to have both been a part of all that and to recognize the sad consequences of it.

    It's very disheartening to read the posts in the Abortion forum here in which people state sincerely that just because you choose to have sex doesn't mean you choose to accept the biological reality that you could become a father or mother. The disconnect is bizarre.
    Great post. Both for its candor and tone. I agree with you about the disconnect. It's as if people don't realize that a child is a very real possibility if unprotected and promiscuous sex is practiced.
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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    Bureaucrats always have ulterior motives.

    North Dakota is a great example of why politicians shouldn't be involved in this at all. Abortion after 6 weeks is illegal regardless of the health of the child, or mother. Regardless whether she was raped.

    They won't take the time and make common sense legislation so they shouldn't be involved in such a delicate matter.
    So your solution instead is for innocent lives to be taken because politics is just too hard? That's the easy way out bro. You know I agree with you about politicians having ulterior motives. That doesn't mean we give up the fight.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So your solution instead is for innocent lives to be taken because politics is just too hard? That's the easy way out bro. You know I agree with you about politicians having ulterior motives. That doesn't mean we give up the fight.
    The fight lies with the doctors...not the politicians. They have to make sure that an abortion is the right choice based on whatever the extenuating circumstance maybe. The doctors will have the obligation to make a choice (with the woman of course)....not the politician
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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    How is it not a baby? Life begins at some point correct? So, by your theory, a mother can kill a fetus at any point up to and including minutes before birth?

    The state has an obligation to protect all citizens. Not just one that made a poor choice to have sex with someone that wasn't going to stick around to help with the baby. It's called dealing with consequences of your actions. I understand that men get off easy in this deal. Totally understand. But that's the way it is. Women were blessed (or cursed depending upon who your talking to) with the ability to carry and give birth to other human beings. They need to think about that before they have unprotected sex with a partner.
    There goes that great and wonderful strawmen you guys use.

    I believe in Roe v Wade. PLEASE show me in Roe V Wade where an abortion may occur "minutes before birth". What a twist and contorted statement that is.

    Then you go on after misrepresenting what I said, to make that old and tired and worn out that a pregnancy is something the "woman has to deal with the consequences of her actions". BS. Birth control does not always work. Sex is a good thing. Sex is enjoyable. There is not evil and "consequences" even from your GOD about having sex. It's was created to be enjoyed. If you haven't had the pleasure yet, I'm sorry for you.

    The fetus is connected to the woman via an umbilical cord. And the fetus is INSIDE the woman. It's not living outside the woman. It is not a baby, that can be put in a crib and dad can feed it when it's hungry. It's inside the the human female, attached and taking food from the woman via a cord connected to them both.

    Up to the end of the first trimester, the woman has a right to decide if SHE wants to be pregnant NOW, how many TIMES she wants to be pregnant and by WHOM. THAT is her responsibility. To have pregnancies she wants, WHEN she wants them, and how MANY she wants. It's not YOUR choice for her and her life, it's HERS.
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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So your solution instead is for innocent lives to be taken because politics is just too hard? That's the easy way out bro. You know I agree with you about politicians having ulterior motives. That doesn't mean we give up the fight.
    Why is it you on the right call a fetus an "innocent life" and children of the poor who are facing cutbacks as "abusing the system"?

    I just don't understand why the right pretends that abortion is anything more than an anti-women's rights issue.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I understand that most libertarians are "pro-life". However, they way in which most of them deal with it ie let the states handle it, goes against what I believe is the correct way to handle it. Killing a baby is killing a baby. No matter what level of gov't handles it. And I do not believe our country should allow ANY level of gov't to dictate that killing a baby is okay. There are VERY few things I will advocate for Federal gov't to be involved in. This is one of those VERY few things.
    Ah, but your republican party has done that numerous of times already in cutting back health care for the elderly and poor, in cutting back foodstamps, in creating a housing mess which throws people into homelessness, in sending jobs overseas creating more poverty in our nation, in refusing to raise the minimum wage. Your party controlled the Congress from 1994 - 2006 and legislated a LOT of laws that killed babies. Babies are humans OUTSIDE the womb AFTER the gestation period. NOT fetuses. YOUR party even killed women seeking abortions that were illegal and NOT performed in a medical setting. You really ignore the babies in the US and cry for a fetus which you will end up NOT caring about once it is is born.

    How the right tries to continue to pretend that their anti-choice stand is an anti-women's right stand, is just silly. We ALL know you HATE babies and that your REAL agenda is to take power away from women in deciding their own lives.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Great post. Both for its candor and tone. I agree with you about the disconnect. It's as if people don't realize that a child is a very real possibility if unprotected and promiscuous sex is practiced.
    What a condescending view. You really think that ALL of the women in this nation are not aware of a pregnancy if they have sex? You must be kidding. You know so few women or the women you know you choose because of their ignorance.

    Pregnancy is a REAL possibility under the best of birth control. How many pregnancies occur from condoms, especially now that birth control for women is all but banned.

    Abortion is a choice a woman makes because SHE is the one who decides WHEN to be pregnant, how many TIMES to be pregnant and by whom.

    Apparently you are not aware that in order to become pregnant, you need a man a lot of the times. NOT always, but a lot of the times. Sex is a good thing. Sometimes, even the most protected get pregnant. That's why we have abortion. To allow the woman to enjoy sex and if the protection fails, to abort the zygote or embryo or fetus.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    IMO, abortion is the murder of a human being in the early stage of it's developement. No civilized country should allow that. This is why it is so dangerous to trivialize sexual intercourse in the way our culture has. There are reactions to the action, one of which being pregnancy. Like I posted to another user, the woman has a responsibility to think of that before engaging in sex with someone. Like it or not, women have the burden in this deal. Men can get a woman pregnant and disappear without ever having to worry about the repercussions.

    Abortion can be legislated. It merely takes level headed politicians to do so. So, in other words, we'll never see it happen.

    YOUR VIEW OF A "CIVILIZED NATION": Male dominated legistors forcing a 12 year old girl raped by her father to carry brain-stem only triplets to full term and birth. That is "civilized" to you. I say is is total sadism and purely evil amorality. Your view of a civilized society towards women is the Taliban.

    And, of course, you also believe you can ge a woman pregnant and disappear without repercussions because you believe you should be in total control over women - bizarrely claiming you getting a womn pregnant and then disappearing you being "civilized" - and lots of fun for you. What you actually make is a case for legally requiring men such as you portray in your message to be forcibly castrated by law to protect society and, obviously, all women.

    Human development does not begin at conception. It begins with the formation of sperm and egg. The LIE that it begins at conception is another convenience false reasoning created for the convenience of irresponsible, amoral men.

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