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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Welliam Wittier View Post
    We don't agree that voluntary abortions are a 'right' or that they should be considered to be a right by the courts.

    Children have a right to the protections of our laws too - same as their mothers do.
    Fetuses, zygote and embryos are not children...they live INSIDE the WOMB and are dependent on the woman for sustenance through the umbilical cord ATTACHED to the woman. Children don't have those same qualities.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Disagree. It's a human life we're talking about, not the choice to marry someone or smoke weed. I agree with libertarian philosophy 9 out 10 times but this issue is the one time I don't and the exact reason I don't claim libertarian as my lean. This isn't a choice that simply effects the decision maker (the mother). Another person is directly effected as well. And that person is at the mercy of the decision maker. A baby has no choice in who is carrying her therefore the carrier has the responsibility to carry until birth. Obviously, there are exceptions such as imminent death of the mother, imminent death of the baby.
    It's not a baby. And the ONLY one affected by this pregnancy IS the woman and HER life. NO one else. YOU certainly are not. The STATE certainly is not. The state isn't giving the woman a house, car, great paying job with paid vacations and health care and a good neighborhood and good schools and college for the woman and her offspring. ERGO, the state and YOU have no rights in this decision.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Like pro-abortion is NOT a dishonest term?
    No. For example, you are vehemently pro-abortion.

    "Pro-choice" is a dishonest, misleading term, both for how it misrepresents those who claim it, and for how it misrepresents those who do not support the legality of abortion.

    Pro-abortion, however, accurately describes your political advocacy.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Disagree. It's a human life we're talking about, not the choice to marry someone or smoke weed. I agree with libertarian philosophy 9 out 10 times but this issue is the one time I don't and the exact reason I don't claim libertarian as my lean. This isn't a choice that simply effects the decision maker (the mother). Another person is directly effected as well. And that person is at the mercy of the decision maker. A baby has no choice in who is carrying her therefore the carrier has the responsibility to carry until birth. Obviously, there are exceptions such as imminent death of the mother, imminent death of the baby.
    In all honesty, standing up for human rights IS the libertarian philosophy on this one.

    Being pro-abortion and claiming to be a "libertarian" is no different than being pro-slavery and claiming to be a "libertarian." It's directly at odds with what the philosophy is about, especially the principle of non-aggression and equal human rights.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Fetuses, zygote and embryos are not children...they live INSIDE the WOMB and are dependent on the woman for sustenance through the umbilical cord ATTACHED to the woman. Children don't have those same qualities.
    Here in the U.S. we have laws that say they ARE children.

    We are not going to ignore those laws.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    No. For example, you are vehemently pro-abortion.

    "Pro-choice" is a dishonest, misleading term, both for how it misrepresents those who claim it, and for how it misrepresents those who do not support the legality of abortion.

    Pro-abortion, however, accurately describes your political advocacy.




    In all honesty, standing up for human rights IS the libertarian philosophy on this one.

    Being pro-abortion and claiming to be a "libertarian" is no different than being pro-slavery and claiming to be a "libertarian." It's directly at odds with what the philosophy is about, especially the principle of non-aggression and equal human rights.
    I would like to know why anyone who fights that hard for abortion would have a problem with that too.

    Here lately, they have even promoted abortion as a solution to financial problems and other social problems.

    Why are they so put off by the idea of calling themselves 'pro-abortion?'


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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Welliam Wittier View Post
    ...

    I have loved ones with dyslexia and I am not insensitive to that.

    You apparently have a much less severe case than those I am familiar with.
    I am very fortunate because I have quite a good memory.
    I had to memorize every word I learned to spell because I cannot sound them out.
    I often double words when I write or I leave words out.
    Even if I proofread before I hit send I often miss the doubled words or omitted words because my mind sees what I wanted to write not what I actually wrote.

    I hope your loved ones don't get too discouraged by their dyslexia.
    Please remind them that sometimes dyslexia can be thought of as a gift because a lot of people with dyslexia have talents in things other than reading, writing, and spelling.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I am very fortunate because I have quite a good memory.
    I had to memorize every word I learned to spell because I cannot sound them out.
    I often double words when I write or I leave words out.
    Even if I proofread before I hit send I often miss the doubled words or omitted words because my mind sees what I wanted to write not what I actually wrote.

    I hope your loved ones don't get too discouraged by their dyslexia.
    Please remind them that sometimes dyslexia can be thought of as a gift because a lot of people with dyslexia have talents in things other than reading, writing, and spelling.
    I must have some of it too because I routinely do almost all of those things.

  8. #1328
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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Disagree. It's a human life we're talking about, not the choice to marry someone or smoke weed. I agree with libertarian philosophy 9 out 10 times but this issue is the one time I don't and the exact reason I don't claim libertarian as my lean. This isn't a choice that simply effects the decision maker (the mother). Another person is directly effected as well. And that person is at the mercy of the decision maker. A baby has no choice in who is carrying her therefore the carrier has the responsibility to carry until birth. Obviously, there are exceptions such as imminent death of the mother, imminent death of the baby.
    Exactly...there are extenuating circumstances and bureaucrats like to paint legislation with a broad brush. On something like this...you can't be broad. There are issues that can arise...and in some states...it doesn't matter...still can't get an abortion. It is the reason I don't think politicians should decide abortion
    Libertarian and Atheist...wow I'm a hated man.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    Exactly...there are extenuating circumstances and bureaucrats like to paint legislation with a broad brush. On something like this...you can't be broad. There are issues that can arise...and in some states...it doesn't matter...still can't get an abortion. It is the reason I don't think politicians should decide abortion
    Exactly.
    Like the new North Dakota law which only allows for abortions until 6 weeks gestation.
    North Dakota only has 1 abortion clinic so the woman has to arrange for an abortion, plan her trip to the clinic which might be hundreds of miles away , arrange for someone to take care of her children,if she has children all before she has even missed her period.

    Oh, and by the way North Dakota does not make exceptions for rape, incest, Health of the woman, or fetal deformities even if the fetus dies before labor.

    If a fetus dies a natural death before labor and is not expelled a doctor will usually perform an abortion ( yes, removing a dead fetus is called an abortion) to remove the fetus and fetal material before it becomes septic which could be fatal to the woman.
    Last edited by minnie616; 03-27-13 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Typo
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Fetuses, zygote and embryos are not children...they live INSIDE the WOMB and are dependent on the woman for sustenance through the umbilical cord ATTACHED to the woman. Children don't have those same qualities.
    Passengers on an aircraft flying above 12,000 feet are INSIDE the aircraft and are dependent on the aircraft for oxygen through cabin pressurization or oxygen masks if the latter fails.

    Are they not human?

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