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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Perhaps you did't get an answer because you are asking the wrong question. It really iis not so much about doing with her body as she pleases as it is really about the right to privacy in regards to reproductivity.
    The right to privacy became a precedent when a case was brought before the Supreme Court in the mid 1960's that required That couples got counseling before they could use BC. The Supreme Court ruled those couples had a " right to privacy " and they could decide how many children they wanted, how many years they chose to space their children apart etc.
    well i have neard many times, about what a woman can do with her body, but again, is a person's property theirs to do as they please if it does not violate the RIGHTS of another person?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well i have neard many times, about what a woman can do with her body, but again, is a person's property theirs to do as they please if it does not violate the RIGHTS of another person?
    Of course it is, but another human being is NOT property. That's why someone whom say kills a pregnant woman of 12 weeks can be prosecuted for not 1, but 2 murders....The mother, and the unborn child.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Of course it is, but another human being is NOT property. That's why someone whom say kills a pregnant woman of 12 weeks can be prosecuted for not 1, but 2 murders....The mother, and the unborn child.
    i am asking a simple question, does one's personal property, belong to them to do anything with it, as long as the rights of another person are not violated?

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am asking a simple question, does one's personal property, belong to them to do anything with it, as long as the rights of another person are not violated?
    Do you believe that a human being can be another's, "personal property"?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well i have neard many times, about what a woman can do with her body, but again, is a person's property theirs to do as they please if it does not violate the RIGHTS of another person?
    Maybe you have heard that many times, but that is not what the law about right to privacy is all about.it is only what some people say.

    As far as your question I will need to research the laws more before I give you an answer.
    All rights have limits and I do not know what property you talking about.
    Are you referring to your money ? Real estate you own? Your home? Your computer? Perhaps a gun you own? Perhaps a business you own?
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    I appreciate your thoughtful response Minnie.
    I have to disagree with your thoughts on an unborn child. While I understand there are times when an unborn child is not going to make it due to deformities or similar circumstances, these circumstances do not have anything to do with the decision of a mother to end the life of her unborn child. Your experience that you've provided does not say anything meaningful about an unborn child's personhood. There are documented instances of an "aborted" child being born alive and surviving. I had a friend who was born at 6 months, and he survived and seems to be doing fine. Other children in this country are aborted at that age in the womb. This fact is more than tragic in my mind. The simple fact is that we don't know at what point a fetus becomes a person. Many will make arbitrary decisions about it, but the simple fact is we don't know the instant. In my mind, because we are dealing with a human life, we must err on the side of caution in this regard.
    I have a firm belief in a Creator, my God. I believe that our lives are created at conception, our life, our spirit, our soul. This is why I believe that abortion at any point is just dead wrong, forgive the pun.
    I can understand that those who do not believe in God, see no wrong here. Honestly, in that world there really isn't anything ever wrong to do, just illegal or unpopular. Right or wrong is no longer the question.

    Regarding your signature, I'll stand somewhat corrected. By itself it is a wonderful statement. Coupled with a pro-abortion stance, it just seems horrific to me. It's interesting what context will do to a simple statement.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i am asking a simple question, does one's personal property, belong to them to do anything with it, as long as the rights of another person are not violated?
    Is this a rhetorical question? I ask because our laws clearly show that property is subject to the controls placed on it by our local, state, and federal governments.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Maybe you have heard that many times, but that is not what the law about right to privacy is all about.it is only what some people say.

    As far as your question I will need to research the laws more before I give you an answer.
    All rights have limits and I do not know what property you talking about.
    Are you referring to your money ? Real estate you own? Your home? Your computer? Perhaps a gun you own? Perhaps a business you own?
    any of my personal property, home, land ,business, materal goods.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cable View Post
    Is this a rhetorical question? I ask because our laws clearly show that property is subject to the controls placed on it by our local, state, and federal governments.

    constutional law states according to madison, states..... my property rights are as strong as my right to free speech.

    can (federal law) take away my natural right to free speech, and can federal law take away my natural right to my property.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    constutional law states according to madison, states..... my property rights are as strong as my right to free speech.

    can (federal law) take away my natural right to free speech, and can federal law take away my natural right to my property.
    But we are not talking about your land, or your machinery, or any other non biological entity here. We are talking about an unborn child, in the womb. The most defenseless among us. When do natural rights occur?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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