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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems we all agree then. It's alive.
    ...
    Yeah it is alive ( unless it is miscarried or died natually in utero and failed to be expelled).

    Also the previable fetus has an EEG as flat as someone who is brain deadand it's fetal neural structure is about as sophisticated as that of a sea slug.

    The tricky part comes when these definitions of life get applied at the beginning of life. The landmark 1973 case Roe v. Wade replaced an old marker of life — the “quickening” or first movements of the fetus — with one based on fetal viability, which typically occurs at about the 23d week.

    This was a tactical move meant to provide a firmer marker for legal purposes. Law seeks clarity. Which is where a consciousness meter could be quite tempting to the courts — and discouraging to anti-abortion conservatives:

    As leading neuroscientist Michael Gazzaniga, a member of President Bush’s Council on Bioethics, describes in his book The Ethical Brain, current neurology suggests that a fetus doesn’t possess enough neural structure to harbor consciousness
    until about 26 weeks,] when it first seems to react to pain.


    Before that, the fetal neural structure is about as sophisticated as that of a sea slug and its EEG as flat and unorganized as that of someone brain-dead.


    The consciometer may not put the abortion issue to rest—given the deeply held religious and moral views on all sides, it’s hard to imagine that anything could.

    But by adding a definitive neurophysiological marker to the historical and secular precedents allowing abortion in the first two-thirds of pregnancy, it may greatly buttress the status quo or even slightly push back the 23-week boundary.
    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...lly-want-that/
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    A 3-year-old cant survive on their own should we kill 3-year-olds next? elderly people to boot? the mentally disabled/challenged?

    Weather or not a fetus can survive on its own is moot.

    Not to mention a fetus can survive outside of the womb (just not without help).
    Elderly Dutch people were fearful of entering Dutch hospitals because their doctors rationalized whether their lives had value or not. Often they figured that the lives of other people were not worth living. Euthanasia: Convenience... Not Compassion

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Yeah it is alive ( unless it is miscarried or died natually in utero and failed to be expelled).

    Also the previable fetus has an EEG as flat as someone who is brain deadand it's fetal neural structure is about as sophisticated as that of a sea slug.



    The Consciousness Meter: Sure You Want That? | Wired Science | Wired.com
    As sophisticated as a sea slug, huh?

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    A 3-year-old cant survive on their own should we kill 3-year-olds next? elderly people to boot? the mentally disabled/challenged?

    Weather or not a fetus can survive on its own is moot.

    Not to mention a fetus can survive outside of the womb (just not without help).
    A 3 year old , elderly people, mentally disabled/challenged
    do not need their bio mother in order to survive.

    A previable fetus can not survive if the pregnant woman dies of if the placenta detaches from the pregnant woman.

    A viable fetus has a good chance of surviving if the woman dies and it is removed quicky and given neo natal care if needed.
    A nurse, grandparent, adoptive parent or another care giver can feed and care for it's needs.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    As sophisticated as a sea slug, huh?
    The fetal neural structure is about as sophisticated as that of a sea slug.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact that question is already being raised.

    Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say - Telegraph

    Once we get into the 'who should live and who should die' debate then we have crossed a line that would have been unthinkable just a generation ago.

    Look at the ridicule Sarah Palin and her family had to put up with as a result of their decision to keep their baby. They attacked her like jackals.
    Agreed....

    I feel bad for Palin - all the crap progressives give her is totally out of line.

    God forbid someone values life - progressives can't have that.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Elderly Dutch people were fearful of entering Dutch hospitals because their doctors rationalized whether their lives had value or not. Often they figured that the lives of other people were not worth living. Euthanasia: Convenience... Not Compassion
    What do you think will happen via "Obamacare" or as progressives like to call it in their PC babble: "Affordable Care Act?"

    Of course progressives won't call them "death panels" - no, they'll come up with some peachy PC word for killing people.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    A 3 year old , elderly people, mentally disabled/challenged
    do not need their bio mother in order to survive.

    A previable fetus can not survive if the pregnant woman dies of if the placenta detaches from the pregnant woman.

    A viable fetus has a good chance of surviving if the woman dies and it is removed quicky and given neo natal care if needed.
    A nurse, grandparent, adoptive parent or another care giver can feed and care for it's needs.
    Define "previable?"

    Plenty of preme babies survived outside the womb...

    Your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever... I've already explained that "viable" people who have already been birthed would die without care - what makes them any different from a fetus that CAN, COULD and DO survive outside the womb?

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    What do you think will happen via "Obamacare" or as progressives like to call it in their PC babble: "Affordable Care Act?"

    Of course progressives won't call them "death panels" - no, they'll come up with some peachy PC word for killing people.
    Pro Choice Panels?

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    ....

    Of course progressives won't call them "death panels" - ...
    And health insurance companies have been denying health coverage for years...
    But they don't call them "death panels"
    Houston Tracy, a 12-day-old boy, has already survived a rare birth defect, a feeding tube and open heart surgery. Now his family is waiting to see how the battle with an insurance company will fare.

    Last week, Houston's parents found out that the term "pre-existing condition" can apply the moment someone is born.

    "When he came out, he made one little cry and he didn't really cry much," said Houston's father, Doug Tracy, 39, of Crowley, Texas.

    Tracy cut the umbilical cord and watched the hospital staff clean his son. But before his wife Kim Tracy, 36, could touch their son doctors got worried. "We could tell there was something wrong by the way they [the doctors] were acting," Doug Tracy said.
    Texas Newborn Baby Denied Health Insurance Coverage Days After Life-Saving Heart Surgery - ABC News
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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