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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, and here is why....



    That a pregnancy can continue after brain death shows scientifically that the child growing in the womb is a separate human growing in there....Your thoughts?
    I'm glad you posted that.

    I was trying to find a story along those lines too.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No.

    A tree, a goldfish, and Agent J are all alive despite any significant brain activity.

    Again the goalposts must always be moved, the definitions of well established words changed, in order to carry out a heinous crime to an innocent being.

    If you want to end a babies life then that is your choice, under the law of the land, to do so. But by having to change the known meaning of words in order to justify your position strongly suggests that your argument lacks real force, as well as humanity.
    I disagree the
    goal posts have not been moved.
    You are confusing the word alive with the term human life.

    The scientific perspectives I posted were when human life begins.


    Cells are alive. A human egg is alive. A sperm is alive. A zygote is alive.
    However there is scientific disagreement on whether an embryo or a pre viable fetus has its own life or if exists only as a part of the woman's life since it cannot survive if she dies, or if the placenta becomes detached from the woman.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok then, why is it that your own pro abortion theory advocates that the entirety of the country should fall under the premise that the SCOTUS decision dictates to the whole of the country that killing of convenience of the baby determines for everyone that it is ok, a supposed "right" even when determined by one parent of the child growing inside that parent, but when it comes to a criminal action it is left to the states? ...
    The states have an interest in the " potential person" so if a person assaults or batters a woman and the fetus dies that person can be charged with murder.
    That does not mean the " child in utero" is considered a " Constitutional person " .

    Despite the seeming conflict, there are a number of reasons why fetal murder laws do not threaten abortion rights.

    First, even though fetal murder laws use the word "person," they do not confer constitutional personhood.

    They confer only an artificial type of personhood, one that is not protected by the Fourteenth Amendment and that does not carry with it a "right to life." (90)

    Second, feticide laws are not grounded in fetal rights; they are based on the interests of the state.

    States can, and do, act to protect certain entities, even when those entities themselves have no rights.

    Moreover, whereas abortion mediates between the opposing interests of the state and the woman, feticide laws pursue the same goals for both the woman and the state. In these scenarios, the state and the woman have similar interests, so the state can be more aggressive about pursuing its goals.
    Finally, there is a clear difference between a pregnant woman consenting to an abortion and a nonconsensual attack on a woman that results in the loss of her pregnancy. The woman has a right to act; the attacker does not. Once we look below the surface, then, it becomes apparent that fetal legislation need not be viewed as a threat to women's rights.

    The myth of fetal personhood: reconciling Roe and fetal homicide laws. - Free Online Library
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The states have an interest in the " potential person" so if a person assaults or batters a woman and the fetus dies that person can be charged with murder.
    That does not mean the " child in utero" is considered a " Constitutional person " .




    The myth of fetal personhood: reconciling Roe and fetal homicide laws. - Free Online Library
    Well, isn't that just convenient?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, and here is why....



    That a pregnancy can continue after brain death shows scientifically that the child growing in the womb is a separate human growing in there....Your thoughts?
    Yeah, we have the sciece and machines to keep a brain dead persons body alive for years. Look at what the courts did to poor Terri Schiavo .
    In the past these brain dead persons could have died peacefully.

    Terri Schiavo case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I disagree the
    goal posts have not been moved.
    You are confusing the word alive with the term human life.

    The scientific perspectives I posted were when human life begins.


    Cells are alive. A human egg is alive. A sperm is alive. A zygote is alive.
    However there is scientific disagreement on whether an embryo or a pre viable fetus has its own life or if exists only as a part of the woman's life since it cannot survive if she dies, or if the placenta becomes detached from the woman.
    It seems we all agree then. It's alive.

    Whether it can survive outside the mother's body or not is quite another matter.

    Even the most basic of female animals understands when they have life in their bodies. Surely a female human being must understand the same thing, otherwise why would they abort it?

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation - chicagotribune.com


    I don't know the exact wording, but wasn't Roe v. Wade vague in the age of the fetus? I think this is borderline in compliance with the SCOTUS ruling and will probably end up going to the SCOTUS.
    Anyone who challenges this ruling may as well petition to kill babies.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Yeah, we have the sciece and machines to keep a brain dead persons body alive for years. Look at what the courts did to poor Terri Schiavo .
    In the past these brain dead persons could have died peacefully.

    Terri Schiavo case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    How do you know she didn't die peacefully? Can you determine that question?

    It seems that when people feel they have the right and the power to determine whether or not another person's life is worth living or not then we have entered a darker place and uglier place than we ever intended.

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems we all agree then. It's alive.

    Whether it can survive outside the mother's body or not is quite another matter.

    Even the most basic of female animals understands when they have life in their bodies. Surely a female human being must understand the same thing, otherwise why would they abort it?
    A 3-year-old cant survive on their own should we kill 3-year-olds next? elderly people to boot? the mentally disabled/challenged?

    Weather or not a fetus can survive on its own is moot.

    Not to mention a fetus can survive outside of the womb (just not without help).

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    Re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    A 3-year-old cant survive on their own should we kill 3-year-olds next? elderly people to boot? the mentally disabled/challenged?

    Weather or not a fetus can survive on its own is moot.

    Not to mention a fetus can survive outside of the womb (just not without help).
    In fact that question is already being raised.

    Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say - Telegraph

    Once we get into the 'who should live and who should die' debate then we have crossed a line that would have been unthinkable just a generation ago.

    Look at the ridicule Sarah Palin and her family had to put up with as a result of their decision to keep their baby. They attacked her like jackals.

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