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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course you are being dishonest here, aren't you?

    I said "OKgrannie said this and you gave it a "like" so i can assume there are at least two women who feel that their appearance is a factor".

    "A factor" is quite different then your claim that I said it was "All about appearance".

    It seems Leftists will never hesitate to lie if they feel it will help their argument. But is it worth it to you?
    And I am saying I posted a like because of the health issues listed not appearence issues.
    Are you calling me a lier or are just Leftists liers?
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    And I am saying I posted a like because of the health issues listed not appearence issues.
    Your 'like' didn't say that. And, contrary to what you said, I said appearance was "a factor".
    Are you calling me a lier or are just Leftists liers?
    It doesn't really matter. I'm done with you.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Your 'like' didn't say that. And, contrary to what you said, I said appearance was "a factor".


    It doesn't really matter. I'm done with you.
    My mistake you did say did say appearence was a factor but you also implyed that I clicked like because I agreed appearence is important.

    To me appearence ranks pretty low.
    There are many things much more important to me than my appearence. , health being one of them.

    When you click on the like you can't add any comments to the like.

    Take your cursor to the bottom of the post and like or share will appear.
    If someone clicks on like it will say like and the persons screen name that clicked like.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    “Today, in what Harvey Mansfield calls our "gender-neutral" society," there are no social norms. Eight decades after the Titanic, a German-built ferry en route from Estonia to Sweden sank in the Baltic Sea. Of the 1,051 passengers, only 139 lived to tell the tale. But the distribution of the survivors was very different from that of the Titanic. Women and children first? No female under fifteen or over sixty-five made it. Only 5 percent of all women passengers lived. The bulk of the survivors were young men. Forty-three percent of men aged 20 to 24 made it.” - Mark Steyn
    I remember hearing about it when the sank but I could not remember the details and I never read the stats you posted so I tried to look up why only 5 percent of women passengers survived and the article I found said that

    STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - Caught in a violent storm, 852 passengers died within minutes after winds ripped off the bow door of the ferry Estonia in 1994, sending icy water gushing through the car deck.

    On Friday, authorities sought clues after another "roll-on, roll-off" ferry sank in the Red Sea with nearly 1,500 people aboard. The cause was unknown, but experts said the vessel's design may have been a key factor.
    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/archiv.../t-314043.html



    Those that did survive may have done so by huddling together, in life rafts that were thrown from the ship, as it was going down. A trauma physician from Turku University Hospital said that all of the victims that were brought to his facility were suffering from hypothermia,
    http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com...supplement.htm

    Hypothermia could account for girls and women under 15 or over 65 not surviving. The lower their body weight or the poorer their health ..the less likely they would survive hypothermia. It might also explain why many males age 20 to 24 survived since they would be among the strongest
    Or the young men could have just been near the life rafts when the ship sink and they threw them in the water.

    Did anyone investigate? do you have a link? I would be interested in readin more.
    It all happened so fast , they said the ship was down within minutes ...
    What a sad tragedy for all the victims and their loved ones.
    Last edited by minnie616; 03-18-13 at 01:57 AM. Reason: forgot to add a link
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    -- Exactly~! Therefore using the term "viability" in order to destroy a life is a false and immoral position to take.

    And I'm saying that that is a 'goalpost' that should not even be there.
    Sorry, this is a non sequitur.

    Viability in childcare as used by many in the medical profession is the cut-off or start point at which intensive medical treatment may or may not have an effect on the survivability of a preterm baby. Before this, the chances of the baby surviving outside the uterus are very slim. 24 weeks is the standard and that is why it is also the cut-off for where an abortion may be performed for non emergency reasons. Before 24 weeks there is little liklihood of the baby surviving: after 24 weeks, there is a very strong chance and that is why you are then (if having an abortion) harming someone who may survive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    -- My feeling is that abortion should be looked at in the same way. Legal, yes, but also one that might be a seriously flawed decision when there are certainly alternatives available. Some women who have had abortions, when said consciences kick in, later regret that they didn't explore those alternatives.
    I have no problem with high quality information being presented to a pregnant mother about alternatives she may have if she allowed the baby to carry to term however anti-abortionists already use emotive and highly charged terms to describe abortion and mothers who have abortions. I don't trust that alternatives won't be presented in ways that pressurise women to keep their unwanted babies or simply end up with many unwanted children living in childcare where the next problem arises which is who will pay for them.

    Introducing morality into this serves the same purpose as reducing abortion from 24 weeks to 12 to 6 as we presumably now see in North Dakota is going to lead to a complete ban - that is the end game of taking away a woman's right to make decisions about her own body and what happens to it. Morality simply puts the blame on an unhappy mother who should have had the choice whether or not to carry to term.
    As for the financial solution to having many unwanted babies sitting in children's homes needing feeding and care - I await the proposals of many on the anti-abortion side.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Introducing morality into this serves the same purpose as reducing abortion from 24 weeks to 12 to 6 as we presumably now see in North Dakota is going to lead to a complete ban - that is the end game of [b]taking away a woman's right[b] to make decisions about her own body and what happens to it.

    From where does the "right" originate? I purpose that this so called "right" of the woman to have the complete say of whether or not to allow the unborn child to live is not a right at all, and actually takes away the rights of not only the man involved in creating the pregnancy, but the rights of the unborn child as well.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    From where does the "right" originate? I purpose that this so called "right" of the woman to have the complete say of whether or not to allow the unborn child to live is not a right at all, and...
    The right is the right to privacy.
    The woman and/or couple has the right of privacy regarding reproductivity.
    She/ they can choose when to have a child, how many children they want and the spacing of their children.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Sorry, this is a non sequitur. Viability in childcare as used by many in the medical profession is the cut-off or start point at which intensive medical treatment may or may not have an effect on the survivability of a preterm baby. Before this, the chances of the baby surviving outside the uterus are very slim. 24 weeks is the standard and that is why it is also the cut-off for where an abortion may be performed for non emergency reasons. Before 24 weeks there is little liklihood of the baby surviving: after 24 weeks, there is a very strong chance and that is why you are then (if having an abortion) harming someone who may survive.
    It's fine if it's used in the medical profession, of course, but now it is being used by the non-medical profession, such as politicians and the courts. Deciding someone's life or death because of their 'viability' was probably never intended by the originators of the term.

    I have no problem with high quality information being presented to a pregnant mother about alternatives she may have if she allowed the baby to carry to term however anti-abortionists already use emotive and highly charged terms to describe abortion and mothers who have abortions.
    And why not? Unless there are lies being told then all information should be made available.
    I don't trust that alternatives won't be presented in ways that pressurise women to keep their unwanted babies or simply end up with many unwanted children living in childcare where the next problem arises which is who will pay for them.
    There are many myths about adoption, and many who are willing to set the record straight.The truth about domestic adoption | BabyCenter

    Strangers and Kin: The American Way of Adoption | Adoption Information from Adoptive Families Magazine: Domestic, International, Foster and Embryo Adoption Resources

    Introducing morality into this serves the same purpose as reducing abortion from 24 weeks to 12 to 6 as we presumably now see in North Dakota is going to lead to a complete ban - that is the end game of taking away a woman's right to make decisions about her own body and what happens to it. Morality simply puts the blame on an unhappy mother who should have had the choice whether or not to carry to term.
    Morality has to play a part in these decisions. How can it not?? Also it will probably encourage more young women to take extra precautions and make the right decisions in her life.
    As for the financial solution to having many unwanted babies sitting in children's homes needing feeding and care - I await the proposals of many on the anti-abortion side.
    There are plenty of good people ready to help with the care, feeding and attention of children. We need to have more trust in our fellow citizens rather than assuming the worst and heading directly to the abortion clinic.
    Last edited by Grant; 03-18-13 at 04:27 PM.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The right is the right to privacy.
    The woman and/or couple has the right of privacy regarding reproductivity.
    She/ they can choose when to have a child, how many children they want and the spacing of their children.
    Our so called right to privacy does not trump another person's right to their life.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Welliam Wittier View Post
    Our so called right to privacy does not trump another person's right to their life.
    then what is your justification for trying to trump the womans right to life? Why dont you value her right to life?
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