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Thread: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanWoman76 View Post
    Yeah sure *eyeroll like a teenager* just because being pregnant isn't any more dangerous than living an ordinary life while not pregnant, don't give me the right to say that a woman can't have an abortion to prevent the risk of death by pregnancy, and then having an abortion and having NOT reducing her risk of death by doing so! <---Sarcasm like a teenager
    1.) your post doesnt make any logical sense
    2.) again you are missing the FORCE part

    its all about force

    you can focus on RISK all you want but you cant FORCE risk on somebody

    for example

    me and you are on a plane, you have 100 hours logged at sky diving, you have two chutes, perfectly packed, you an expert by now

    BUT for whatever reason you decide you do not want to jump out the plane today

    so I push you out the plane against your will since i know theres less than a 1% risk you will die

    did i commit a crime?
    could i be charged with a crime?
    maybe a crime as high as reckless endangerment or attempted murder?

    better yet what if that less than 1% is today and you do die, both your chutes dont open in a freak accident

    do you think ill be charged with a type of murder?


    or, because the risk was less than 1% i did nothing wrong and it was absolutely ok for me to force you against your will to risk you life since you know, the risk is so low



    like i said, theres factually risk and you have no right to force that on anybody against their will.

    this is not a hard concept, even IF you are a teenager. .
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    1.) your post doesnt make any logical sense
    2.) again you are missing the FORCE part

    its all about force

    you can focus on RISK all you want but you cant FORCE risk on somebody

    for example

    me and you are on a plane, you have 100 hours logged at sky diving, you have two chutes, perfectly packed, you an expert by now

    BUT for whatever reason you decide you do not want to jump out the plane today

    so I push you out the plane against your will since i know theres less than a 1% risk you will die

    did i commit a crime?
    could i be charged with a crime?
    maybe a crime as high as reckless endangerment or attempted murder?

    better yet what if that less than 1% is today and you do die, both your chutes dont open in a freak accident

    do you think ill be charged with a type of murder?


    or, because the risk was less than 1% i did nothing wrong and it was absolutely ok for me to force you against your will to risk you life since you know, the risk is so low



    like i said, theres factually risk and you have no right to force that on anybody against their will.

    this is not a hard concept, even IF you are a teenager. .
    Risk of jumping out of a small plane with a parachute vs. staying in plane: 19% higher ( I accept as your premise) Risk of staying in plane vs. staying on ground: let's say 19% higher just for laughs. and if it's your body your choice (meaning you're not pregnant and forcing an unborn baby to take that risk with you) then you chose the 19% higher risk. whether or not you chose to get out of the plane has no comparison to abortion. you either chose the increased risk of getting in the plane to begin with, or you didn't. If that's your mother wearing a parachute and you weren't born yet, you didn't choose it, and it's your life at risk and it's not her choice, because it's your body and your life. pregnancy without prenatal care has 19% more risk of death than no pregnancy. i didn't copy your number, that's the actual number. pregnancy with proper prenatal care has no more risk of death than no pregnancy. even a teenager can understand that. giving a woman proper prenatal care eliminates the risk of death caused by pregnancy. Even a teenager can understand that. Would forcing a woman to get proper prenatal care be wrong? Yes, but no woman would ever choose not to get proper prenatal care, EVER, so that's a total lie of a point you're making about "FORCE" in capital letters. Is proper prenatal care available to every pregnant woman? No. Would it be if the tax funds spent on abortion, were spent on prenatal care? Yes. Did taxpayers CHOOSE for those funds to be spent on Family Planning? Yes. Were taxpayers told when they were voting, that Family Planning would use 99% of it on proper prenatal care? Yes. Were taxpayers told when they were voting, that 97% of the funds would be spent on abortions? NO. Taxpayers CHOSE to spend the funds on proper prenatal care but were FORCED to spend them on abortion. Women who need proper prenatal care and can't afford it, CAN NOT CHOOSE to get proper prenatal care through Family Planning. that CHOICE has been TAKEN FROM THEM because Family Planning says they would love to help but don't have to funds to do so. They end up being FORCED to take a 19% risk of death and then being FORCED to ["CHOOSE" <--- sarcasm] between their own death and the baby's death. FORCING a woman to make that ["CHOICE" <---sarcasm] is FASCIST, ANTI-CHOICE and wrong. Even a teenager can understand that.

  3. #1013
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanWoman76 View Post
    Risk of jumping out of a small plane with a parachute vs. staying in plane: 19% higher ( I accept as your premise) Risk of staying in plane vs. staying on ground: let's say 19% higher just for laughs. and if it's your body your choice (meaning you're not pregnant and forcing an unborn baby to take that risk with you) then you chose the 19% higher risk. whether or not you chose to get out of the plane has no comparison to abortion. you either chose the increased risk of getting in the plane to begin with, or you didn't. If that's your mother wearing a parachute and you weren't born yet, you didn't choose it, and it's your life at risk and it's not her choice, because it's your body and your life. pregnancy without prenatal care has 19% more risk of death than no pregnancy. i didn't copy your number, that's the actual number. pregnancy with proper prenatal care has no more risk of death than no pregnancy. even a teenager can understand that. giving a woman proper prenatal care eliminates the risk of death caused by pregnancy. Even a teenager can understand that. Would forcing a woman to get proper prenatal care be wrong? Yes, but no woman would ever choose not to get proper prenatal care, EVER, so that's a total lie of a point you're making about "FORCE" in capital letters. Is proper prenatal care available to every pregnant woman? No. Would it be if the tax funds spent on abortion, were spent on prenatal care? Yes. Did taxpayers CHOOSE for those funds to be spent on Family Planning? Yes. Were taxpayers told when they were voting, that Family Planning would use 99% of it on proper prenatal care? Yes. Were taxpayers told when they were voting, that 97% of the funds would be spent on abortions? NO. Taxpayers CHOSE to spend the funds on proper prenatal care but were FORCED to spend them on abortion. Women who need proper prenatal care and can't afford it, CAN NOT CHOOSE to get proper prenatal care through Family Planning. that CHOICE has been TAKEN FROM THEM because Family Planning says they would love to help but don't have to funds to do so. They end up being FORCED to take a 19% risk of death and then being FORCED to ["CHOOSE" <--- sarcasm] between their own death and the baby's death. FORCING a woman to make that ["CHOICE" <---sarcasm] is FASCIST, ANTI-CHOICE and wrong. Even a teenager can understand that.
    wow you simply dont get it, your post changes absolutley nothing and is a meanignless rant, its not even on topic LMAO

    you are still focusing on the risk, the risk doesnt matter

    you cant FORCE somebody to risk their life against their will, sorry this wont change based on your OPINIONS

    I also noticed you didnt answer any of my questions, i wonder why?????
    are you going to dodge questions again?

    i definitley think you are young because i have no clue how you think your post pretains to anything being discussed.

    ill ask my questions AGAIN, lets see if you dodge them

    did i commit a crime?
    could i be charged with a crime?
    maybe a crime as high as reckless endangerment or attempted murder?

    better yet what if that less than 1% is today and you do die, both your chutes dont open in a freak accident

    do you think ill be charged with a type of murder?

    or, because the risk was less than 1% i did nothing wrong and it was absolutely ok for me to force you against your will to risk you life since you know, the risk is so low ?

    and ill add this one, its a yes or no question.
    DO i have the right to force you to risk your life against your will?

    also stop posting the lie about prenatal care, it factually does not eliminate all risk of death LMAO
    Last edited by AGENT J; 03-13-13 at 11:09 PM.
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  4. #1014
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanWoman76 View Post
    Risk of jumping out of a small plane with a parachute vs. staying in plane: 19% higher ( I accept as your premise) Risk of staying in plane vs. staying on ground: let's say 19% higher just for laughs. and if it's your body your choice (meaning you're not pregnant and forcing an unborn baby to take that risk with you) then you chose the 19% higher risk. whether or not you chose to get out of the plane has no comparison to abortion. you either chose the increased risk of getting in the plane to begin with, or you didn't. If that's your mother wearing a parachute and you weren't born yet, you didn't choose it, and it's your life at risk and it's not her choice, because it's your body and your life. pregnancy without prenatal care has 19% more risk of death than no pregnancy. i didn't copy your number, that's the actual number. pregnancy with proper prenatal care has no more risk of death than no pregnancy. even a teenager can understand that. giving a woman proper prenatal care eliminates the risk of death caused by pregnancy. Even a teenager can understand that. Would forcing a woman to get proper prenatal care be wrong? Yes, but no woman would ever choose not to get proper prenatal care, EVER, so that's a total lie of a point you're making about "FORCE" in capital letters. Is proper prenatal care available to every pregnant woman? No. Would it be if the tax funds spent on abortion, were spent on prenatal care? Yes. Did taxpayers CHOOSE for those funds to be spent on Family Planning? Yes. Were taxpayers told when they were voting, that Family Planning would use 99% of it on proper prenatal care? Yes. Were taxpayers told when they were voting, that 97% of the funds would be spent on abortions? NO. Taxpayers CHOSE to spend the funds on proper prenatal care but were FORCED to spend them on abortion. Women who need proper prenatal care and can't afford it, CAN NOT CHOOSE to get proper prenatal care through Family Planning. that CHOICE has been TAKEN FROM THEM because Family Planning says they would love to help but don't have to funds to do so. They end up being FORCED to take a 19% risk of death and then being FORCED to ["CHOOSE" <--- sarcasm] between their own death and the baby's death. FORCING a woman to make that ["CHOICE" <---sarcasm] is FASCIST, ANTI-CHOICE and wrong. Even a teenager can understand that.
    You still aren't providing links to support your assertions. Only a teeny tiny amount of tax money is spent on abortion. Only those medicaid qualified women who are victims of rape, incest, or life threat can have abortions paid for. Therefore....if the tax money spent on those limited abortions were to be made available for prenatal care, it wouldn't make much difference.
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanWoman76 View Post
    yeah every woman might get some of the insignificant ones listed and not bother with cosmetic surgery because it's insignificant. Every woman WILL NOT get the scary stuff listed if she gets proper prenatal care. Get over your own scare tactics, pregnancy is not a disease.
    I agree not every woman will get the " scary stuff" but some will even if they have proper prenatal care.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanWoman76 View Post
    Pelvic Floor Disease is preventable with prenatal care. Killing a baby because it's cheaper than medical costs isn't a human right. Neither is Killing a baby to avoid looking older afterward. NOT. A. HUMAN. RIGHT. PERIOD. Now, if the mother's life were in danger and prenatal care couldn't prevent it from being in danger, then abortion would be a human right. but that doesn't happen so IT'S. nOT. A. HUMAN . RIGHT. TO . KILL. ANOTHER . HUMAN. JUST . BECAUSE . YOU . FEEL . LIKE. IT. PERIOD.
    Following is a description of prenatal care. With a LINK. Please tell us what part of prenatal care prevents pelvic floor disorder. I can't believe I'm seeing
    "if the mother's life were in danger and prenatal care couldn't prevent it from being in danger, then abortion would be a human right. but that doesn't happen"
    , would you mind confirming that you just said that a pregnant woman's life is never in danger.

    Prenatal care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Prenatal Examinations

    Main articles: Prenatal diagnosis and prenatal screening
    Prenatal diagnosis or prenatal screening (note that "Prenatal Diagnosis" and "Prenatal Screening" refer to two different types of tests) is testing for diseases or conditions in a fetus or embryo before it is born. Obstetricians and midwives have the ability to monitor mother's health and prenatal development during pregnancy through series of regular check-ups.[4]
    Physical examinations generally consist of:
    Collection of (mother's) medical history
    Checking (mother's) blood pressure
    (Mother's) height and weight
    Pelvic exam
    Doppler fetal heart rate monitoring
    (Mother's) blood and urine tests
    Discussion with caregiver

    Ultrasound Obstetric ultrasounds are most commonly performed during the second trimester at approximately week 20. Ultrasounds are considered relatively safe and have been used for over 35 years for monitoring pregnancy. Among other things, ultrasounds are used to:
    Diagnose pregnancy (uncommon)
    Check for multiple fetuses
    Assess possible risks to the mother (e.g., miscarriage, blighted ovum, ectopic pregnancy, or a molar pregnancy condition)
    Check for fetal malformation (e.g., club foot, spina bifida, cleft palate, clenched fists)
    Determine if an intrauterine growth retardation condition exists
    Note the development of fetal body parts (e.g., heart, brain, liver, stomach, skull, other bones)
    Check the amniotic fluid and umbilical cord for possible problems
    Determine due date (based on measurements and relative developmental progress)
    Generally an ultrasound is ordered whenever an abnormality is suspected or along a schedule similar to the following:
    7 weeks confirm pregnancy, ensure that it's neither molar or ectopic, determine due date
    1314 weeks (some areas) evaluate the possibility of Down Syndrome
    1820 weeks see the expanded list above
    34 weeks (some areas) evaluate size, verify placental position
    [edit]
    "Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending."
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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It does say child though. Can it be argued that a child is not a person?
    In the case of feticid laws the "child in utero" do not confer constitutional personhood.

    Despite the seeming conflict, there are a number of reasons why fetal murder laws do not threaten abortion rights.
    First, even though fetal murder laws use the word "person," they do not confer constitutional personhood.



    They confer only an artificial type of personhood, one that is not protected by the Fourteenth Amendment and that does not carry with it a "right to life." (90)
    The myth of fetal personhood: reconciling Roe and fetal homicide laws. - Free Online Library
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I agree not every woman will get the " scary stuff" but some will even if they have proper prenatal care.
    "some" being closer to 0% than to 1%

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
    Following is a description of prenatal care. With a LINK. Please tell us what part of prenatal care prevents pelvic floor disorder. I can't believe I'm seeing , would you mind confirming that you just said that a pregnant woman's life is never in danger.

    Prenatal care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Prenatal Examinations

    Main articles: Prenatal diagnosis and prenatal screening
    Prenatal diagnosis or prenatal screening (note that "Prenatal Diagnosis" and "Prenatal Screening" refer to two different types of tests) is testing for diseases or conditions in a fetus or embryo before it is born. Obstetricians and midwives have the ability to monitor mother's health and prenatal development during pregnancy through series of regular check-ups.[4]
    Physical examinations generally consist of:
    Collection of (mother's) medical history
    Checking (mother's) blood pressure
    (Mother's) height and weight
    Pelvic exam
    Doppler fetal heart rate monitoring
    (Mother's) blood and urine tests
    Discussion with caregiver

    Ultrasound Obstetric ultrasounds are most commonly performed during the second trimester at approximately week 20. Ultrasounds are considered relatively safe and have been used for over 35 years for monitoring pregnancy. Among other things, ultrasounds are used to:
    Diagnose pregnancy (uncommon)
    Check for multiple fetuses
    Assess possible risks to the mother (e.g., miscarriage, blighted ovum, ectopic pregnancy, or a molar pregnancy condition)
    Check for fetal malformation (e.g., club foot, spina bifida, cleft palate, clenched fists)
    Determine if an intrauterine growth retardation condition exists
    Note the development of fetal body parts (e.g., heart, brain, liver, stomach, skull, other bones)
    Check the amniotic fluid and umbilical cord for possible problems
    Determine due date (based on measurements and relative developmental progress)
    Generally an ultrasound is ordered whenever an abnormality is suspected or along a schedule similar to the following:
    7 weeks — confirm pregnancy, ensure that it's neither molar or ectopic, determine due date
    13–14 weeks (some areas) — evaluate the possibility of Down Syndrome
    18–20 weeks — see the expanded list above
    34 weeks (some areas) — evaluate size, verify placental position
    [edit]
    I do mind you putting false words into my mouth. a woman has a 19% risk of death with 3rd world medical care and closer to 0% than 1% risk of death and other scary stuff with proper prenatal care.

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    re: Arkansas to ban abortion at 12 weeks, earliest in nation [W:1036:1154]

    Originally Posted by AmericanWoman76
    fine then i should be allowed to kill you because i have the right not to be forced to endure ugliness. your argument isn't a disease but i think it's ugly so i must kill someone to prevent it. it's my right as a woman to kill someone to prevent a minor nuisance because i think it's ugly, fair enough?
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    ive never read such a failed nonsensical analogy in my life

    your example has NOTHING to do with what was actually said.

    the point is you have no right to force somebody to risk their life against their will
    I agree. No person should ever force another person to risk their life against their will.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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