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Thread: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Liquid chemicals, particularly 2 parts mixable, can make tremendously powerful explosives and it takes little volume to do it.

    The concerns with wheel chairs is most are made of hollow metal tubes in which both explosives and parts to make a firearm can be hidden. That also is the reason they want laptops separate for careful examination. It would not take much of an explosion to bring down a jetliner. If I remember correctly, they initially required people to turn on electronics to make sure they were real - but booting time was probably too delaying.
    9/11/2001 did not involve blowing up aircraft, it involved letting morons, "armed" with boxcutters, drive them into buildings. TSA does a very poor job of finding things (except valuable items in luggage). Placing TSA into the mix simply absolves the airlines (and their insurance companies) of any liability for security. Do you seriously think that TSA provides better security than the airlines would if they were simply randomly tested and heavily fined if they did not pass gov't security inspections? Profit and fear of liability are the true motivators of security, not using hapless gov't morons with wands and badges. 4 or 5 morons, "armed" with boxcutters would have a hard time successfully robbing the typical gas station, grocery store or bank yet were allowed to actually drive (pilot?) commercial airliners. We should have simply allowed the two arilines involved to have been sued out of existance and setup gov't security regulations and tested the remaining carriers for compliance.
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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    9/11/2001 did not involve blowing up aircraft, it involved letting morons, "armed" with boxcutters, drive them into buildings. TSA does a very poor job of finding things (except valuable items in luggage). Placing TSA into the mix simply absolves the airlines (and their insurance companies) of any liability for security. Do you seriously think that TSA provides better security than the airlines would if they were simply randomly tested and heavily fined if they did not pass gov't security inspections? Profit and fear of liability are the true motivators of security, not using hapless gov't morons with wands and badges. 4 or 5 morons, "armed" with boxcutters would have a hard time successfully robbing the typical gas station, grocery store or bank yet were allowed to actually drive (pilot?) commercial airliners. We should have simply allowed the two arilines involved to have been sued out of existance and setup gov't security regulations and tested the remaining carriers for compliance.
    I do not agree. Airline security would have no law enforcement powers and blowing of an airliner (which as been unsuccessfully attempted due to the liquids limit) would be devastating beyond the immediate lose of life.

    I do NOT like TSA practices - GREATLY - but law enforcement based security is a necessity.

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes - ABC News
    As the nation braces for potentially extended airport security lines because of the federal budget sequester, the Travel Security Administration (TSA) has announced they will allow small pocket knives and certain sporting goods on planes for the first time in more than a decade.
    TSA Administrator John Pistole announced the change today at an aviation security conference in New York.
    .

    I checked and the TSA will still ban the P-38 on all flights.
    300px-P-38_Can_Opener.jpg

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I can see why flight attendants wouldn't like this. Some passengers do go wacko, particularly if drinking. No one wants their face slashed and a 2 inch blade is sufficient to slash a throat.

    Again, I see this as a news diversion matter.
    We really didn't have that problem back when all this stuff was perfectly fine and I see no reason why we would now.

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I do not agree. Airline security would have no law enforcement powers and blowing of an airliner (which as been unsuccessfully attempted due to the liquids limit) would be devastating beyond the immediate lose of life.

    I do NOT like TSA practices - GREATLY - but law enforcement based security is a necessity.
    It is unclear as to the actual arrest powers of TSA, basically they may only deny you access, not arrest you. What is clear is that their effectiveness is questionable. More TSA personnel have been arrested (for baggage theft) than "terrorists" dectected or "arrested" by them.

    A report on undercover operations conducted in October 2006 at Newark Liberty International Airport was leaked to the press. The screeners had failed 20 of 22 undercover security tests, missing numerous guns and bombs. The Government Accountability Office had previously pointed to repeated covert test failures by TSA personnel.[106][107] Revealing the results of covert tests is against TSA policy, and the agency responded by initiating an internal probe to discover the source of the leak.[108]

    In July 2007, the Times Union of Albany, New York reported that TSA screeners at Albany International Airport failed multiple covert security tests conducted by the TSA. Among them was a failure to detect a fake bomb.[109]

    In December 2010, ABC News Houston reported in an article about a man who accidentally took a forgotten gun through airport security, that "the failure rate approaches 70 percent at some major airports".[110]

    In May 2012, a report from the Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General stated that the TSA "does not have a complete understanding" of breaches at the nation's airports, with some hubs doing very little to fix or report security breaches. These findings will be presented to Congress.[111]
    The TSA has been criticized[152] for an increase in baggage theft after its inception. Reported thefts include both valuable and dangerous goods, such as laptops, jewelry[153] guns,[154] and knives.[155] Such thefts have raised concerns that the same access might allow bombs to be placed aboard aircraft.[156]

    In 2004, over 17,000 claims of baggage theft were reported.[153] As of 2004, 60 screeners had been arrested for baggage theft,[153] a number which had grown to 200 screeners by 2008.[157] 11,700 theft and damage claims were reported to the TSA in 2009, a drop from 26,500 in 2004, which was attributed to the installation of cameras and conveyor belts in airports.[158]

    As of 2011, the TSA employs about 60,000 screeners in total (counting both baggage and passenger screening)[159] and approximately 500 TSA agents have been fired or suspended for stealing from passenger luggage since the agency's creation in November 2001. The most affected airports are in the New York area – John F. Kennedy International Airport JFK, LaGuardia Airport LGA and Newark Liberty International Airport EWR.[160]

    In 2008 an investigative report by WTAE in Pittsburgh discovered that despite over 400 reports of baggage theft, about half of which the TSA reimbursed passengers for, not a single arrest had been made.[7] The TSA does not, as a matter of policy, share baggage theft reports with local police departments.[7]
    Transportation Security Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Well....I'm sure it'll be useless, as it is everytime I ever seem to talk about this subject on here, but here goes...

    The decision to allow certain knives (along with some types of sporting equipment previously disallowed) was done as part of a general initiative TSA's had for some time in terms of risk based screening. The goal is not necessarily to remove ALL threats, nor is it necessarily to stop illegality, but is meant specifically to be aimed at attempting to prevent a significant disturbance in the nations transit system.

    What's come about thanks to analysis of intelligence and security measures taken over the years is that the primary threat to the nations aviation system is the notion of smuggled aboard IED's. This is, in part, why your bottles are still not allowed onto airplanes because of the potential use of them as portions of an IED. While a physical hijacking is still a threat, it's a less likely threat due to various security measures (such as the changes to cockpit doors and regulations regarding them that another poster mentioned). The change was done most likely due to an a desire to be as reasonable as possible in the balance between the severity of a threat and the hinderance on the public. Like the pictures people posted demonstrates, this allows for your typical swiss army type of pocket knife to be brought aboard...a rather common thing carried by many people. While it absolutely COULD still pose a threat, the risk of a hijacking using a knife and specifically THAT type of knife was low enough in the TSA's mind to be able to remove those restrictions.

    While I understand and sympathize with those having issues with the bottle regulations, I would say that I personally would not expect to see that protocol change anytime in the near future.

    In terms of arrest power. The MAJORITY of your TSA workforce do not have arrest power in and of themselves, though they usually work closely with the local LEO's at an airport for those that would require such action. There ARE some entities within TSA however that are Law Enforcement Officers and do have such abilities. They rarely operate actively within the airports or checkpoint type situations however.

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes - ABC News
    As the nation braces for potentially extended airport security lines because of the federal budget sequester, the Travel Security Administration (TSA) has announced they will allow small pocket knives and certain sporting goods on planes for the first time in more than a decade.
    TSA Administrator John Pistole announced the change today at an aviation security conference in New York.


    I haven't decided how I feel about this decision yet.
    I think it may bite govt in tookas! If some idiot cuts a stewardess

    then all hell breaks loose.

    If nothing happens then why have TSA?

    I'm in favor of no TSA period.

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I do not agree. Airline security would have no law enforcement powers and blowing of an airliner (which as been unsuccessfully attempted due to the liquids limit) would be devastating beyond the immediate lose of life.

    I do NOT like TSA practices - GREATLY - but law enforcement based security is a necessity.
    As much as I hate to say it, we do need the TSA. Although I would love to see major reforms, the organization is necessary.

    And +1 for the liquids. IMHO, that is one of the biggest threats right now.

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes - ABC News
    As the nation braces for potentially extended airport security lines because of the federal budget sequester, the Travel Security Administration (TSA) has announced they will allow small pocket knives and certain sporting goods on planes for the first time in more than a decade.
    TSA Administrator John Pistole announced the change today at an aviation security conference in New York.


    I haven't decided how I feel about this decision yet.
    You can't do much with a pocket knife. Can I bring some god damned Old Spice spray on the plane though. I mean I appreciate that TSA is trying to save us from smelling good....oh wait, no I don't appreciate that in the least.

    The TSA needs to be abolished, the rules and regulations and degrading manner through which we are treated, ended. Just because some jackass terrorists flew some planes into a building 12 years ago doesn't mean that I no longer have human worth or dignity.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: TSA to Allow Pocket Knives On Planes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    As much as I hate to say it, we do need the TSA. Although I would love to see major reforms, the organization is necessary.

    And +1 for the liquids. IMHO, that is one of the biggest threats right now.
    We "need TSA". Oh please government save us from low probability events! Spend as much money as you can too, and don't feel afraid to infringe on every right I have and treat me as something less than human. Just keep me safe from low probability events and other scary things Government!
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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