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Thread: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Further Gacky, I am still trying to find a video of this hearing, but in 2004, here is a partial accounting of what was said by Demo congresscritters...

    Maxine Waters: Through nearly a dozen hearings, we were frankly trying to fix something that wasn’t broke. Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and particularly at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Franklin Raines. [Raines would barely avoid prosecution for fraud.]Gregory Meeks: … I’m just pissed off at OFHEO [the regulators trying to warn Congress of insolvency at the GSEs], because if it wasn’t for you, I don’t think we’d be here in the first place. … There’s been nothing that indicated that’s wrong with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac has come up on its own … The question that then comes up is the competence that your agency has with reference to deciding and regulating these GSEs.
    Lacy Clay: This hearing is about the political lynching of Franklin Raines.
    Barney Frank: I don’t see anything in this report that raises safety and soundness problems.

    Video: Democrats insist “nothing wrong” at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac in 2004 « Hot Air
    Youtube has scrubbed the video....I wonder who ordered that?
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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Here's one for you:



    And then a few years ago Frank appears on O'Rilley....



    And can't even take responsibility for his own words played....What a joke...You progressives must really think people are dumb.
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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Read the CRA dreamed up by Carter's administration, and put on steroids by Clinton, with Cloward, and Piven at the signing. Then go look up the hearing where the demo's were attacking the regulators for sounding the alarm, and Barney Frank proclaiming that all is fine, and Franklin Raines was near sainthood for his bilking the people for near $90 million and disappearing.

    While the banks did turn piss poor mortgages into a casino, bundling knowingly misleading portfolios into trade instruments, what did you expect them to do in the face of being told that they MUST lend to people that they knew couldn't pay the debt? People that had NO income verification requirements? People that didn't have to do anything but say they were consultants and put down any figure that qualified for the half million dollar McMansion's and live the fraud they were signing. Then when it all crashes because these people were using they house as a revolving credit line and living WaaaaaaaY beyond their means, it somehow is the banks fault?

    BULL!
    I've read the CRA act, and the only thing in there applicable as that banks couldn't discriminate based on race or neighborhood, or redline, but they most certainly discriminated based on credit and income.

    This had nothing to do with the CRA, banks made billions off this, what caused this was the securitization of mortages and credit default swaps and the lack of regulation on those, as well as glass steagal being taken apart.

    The banks were NEVER forced to give anyone a loan who they normally would'nt give a loan based on income and credit, all they couldn't do was discriminate based on race or redline ... They still could deny people loans for economic reasons. (look at the actual CRA)

    They wern't forced to do anything, they WANTED to make the billions that they did.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I've read the CRA act, and the only thing in there applicable as that banks couldn't discriminate based on race or neighborhood, or redline, but they most certainly discriminated based on credit and income.

    This had nothing to do with the CRA, banks made billions off this, what caused this was the securitization of mortages and credit default swaps and the lack of regulation on those, as well as glass steagal being taken apart.

    The banks were NEVER forced to give anyone a loan who they normally would'nt give a loan based on income and credit, all they couldn't do was discriminate based on race or redline ... They still could deny people loans for economic reasons. (look at the actual CRA)

    They wern't forced to do anything, they WANTED to make the billions that they did.

    Nonsense...That lie may serve you well in liberal circles that still believe that ACORN wasn't a fraud agency of thuggery for progressives in government, but not with rational people that saw what was happening....

    The thousands of mortgage defaults and foreclosures in the "subprime" housing market (i.e., mortgage holders with poor credit ratings) is the direct result of thirty years of government policy that has forced banks to make bad loans to un-creditworthy borrowers. The policy in question is the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), which compels banks to make loans to low-income borrowers and in what the supporters of the Act call "communities of color" that they might not otherwise make based on purely economic criteria.

    The original lobbyists for the CRA were the hardcore leftists who supported the Carter administration and were often rewarded for their support with government grants and programs like the CRA that they benefited from. These included various "neighborhood organizations," as they like to call themselves, such as "ACORN" (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now). These organizations claim that over $1 trillion in CRA loans have been made, although no one seems to know the magnitude with much certainty. A U.S. Senate Banking Committee staffer told me about ten years ago that at least $100 billion in such loans had been made in the first twenty years of the Act.


    So-called "community groups" like ACORN benefit themselves from the CRA through a process that sounds like legalized extortion. The CRA is enforced by four federal government bureaucracies: the Fed, the Comptroller of the Currency, the Office of Thrift Supervision, and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. The law is set up so that any bank merger, branch expansion, or new branch creation can be postponed or prohibited by any of these four bureaucracies if a CRA "protest" is issued by a "community group." This can cost banks great sums of money, and the "community groups" understand this perfectly well. It is their leverage. They use this leverage to get the banks to give them millions of dollars as well as promising to make a certain amount of bad loans in their communities.


    A man named Bruce Marks became quite notorious during the last decade for pressuring banks to earmark literally billions of dollars to his organization, the "Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America." He once boasted to the New York Times that he had "won" loan commitments totaling $3.8 billion from Bank of America, First Union Corporation, and the Fleet Financial Group. And that is just one "community group" operating in one city — Boston.

    Banks have been placed in a Catch 22 situation by the CRA: If they comply, they know they will have to suffer from more loan defaults. If they don't comply, they face financial penalties and, worse yet, their business plans for mergers, branch expansions, etc. can be blocked by CRA protesters, which can cost a large corporation like Bank of America billions of dollars. Like most businesses, they have largely buckled under and have surrendered to their bureaucratic masters.

    The Government-Created Subprime Mortgage Meltdown by Thomas DiLorenzo
    I remember when we bought our first house in 2004. The mortgage lender tried to have us look at these adjustable rate junk, and I refused, opting for the traditional 30 year fixed. As a result we were fine. And I am no financial genius or something, just a normal middle class American, that pays attention, and knows that sustained gains in real estate of 20% and more per year are not real. Now, instead of being truthful about what happened, progressives are lying through their teeth, and continuing to do what was done to housing in '08 and before, to other sectors including education....How many time do we have to repeat the failures of progressive Marxism before we say enough!
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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    And yet another story of how progressives are doing it again....

    Do you remember that thing about how the banks wouldn’t lend to blacks and Hispanics because they were racists? And do you remember how they passed the Community Reinvestment Act so that banks were forced to reduce down payments practically to zero and lend to a lot of people they knew were bad credit risks? And do you remember how Wall Street bundled all these risky subprime mortgages and sold them to investors around the world so that when it became clear that those people weren’t going to be able to pay their mortgages banks everywhere were left holding the bag and all five of the Wall Street investment houses either went under or had to be bailed out by the federal government?
    And do you remember how, when it was all over, liberals said it was actually the banks’ fault for “deceiving” all those people into thinking they could afford to buy homes and that the banks should be punished for it and some of those people be allowed to keep their homes anyway? And do you remember how all this cost the government close to a trillion dollars and put the whole economy in a hole that we really haven’t begun to dig ourselves out of yet?
    Well, get ready because the whole thing is about to happen again.
    Yes, believe it or not, the federal government is now starting another initiative to force banks to lend to low-credit-rated blacks and Hispanics — not just anybody but specifically blacks and Hispanics — and is threatening — and already imposing — huge punitive fines if they don’t. Moreover, this time they’re going even further. They’re going to take over the credit rating agencies and force them to change their standards to accommodate blacks and Hispanics so that nobody will have any idea who is a bad credit risk and who is not. In so many words, the government is about impose its will on the whole home-lending market and force another round of bad loans so that the banks are going to be looted once again so that even the federal government may not be able to bail them out this time.

    The American Spectator : And You Thought the Housing Crisis Was Over!
    I am sure that when this round blows up again, the progressives will once again blame the banks, and re write history all over again....Round and round we go....

    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Consumption is not investment, so exporting is not the same as being "dependant on foreign capital," Yeah they are going to make up that 43% overtime, as the economy grows.

    Read the article, they arn't forcing people to take loans, they are forcing banks to offer loans, and low interest ... it's financial regulation to make sure it services the poorest in the country ... I think that is actually extremely good policy that would be good here in the US. It applies to state banks and chartered private banks (all banks are state chartered and insured, so no **** the state has a right to regulate) ... I love that, Chavez regulates the bank to make sure they offer low interest credit for low income housing and you claim "HE'S FORCING PEOPLE TO GO IN DEBT." Common now.




    That isn't what I said, I said many countries ... like the US have excess capacity as a problem, i.e. tons of capital and no market, the fact that the opposite is the problem in Venezuela is a good thing, because it has plenty of space to grow.

    I was responding to you talking about manufacturing capacity growth, not shortages, don't mix arguments.

    Compare the balance of trade to before Chavez .... it's gotten BETTER.

    Venezuela GDP Probably Grew 4 Percent in 2011 on Higher Federal Spending - Bloomberg

    Non oil GDP up 4.3%, manufacturing up 3.5%, construction up 3.4%.

    Better is better.
    Perhaps I need to show you the chart again about where their economic growth is completely dependent on oil revenue? Cut out 43% of it, and their economy implodes. Pretty simple concept there.

    Forced is forced, they are forcing investment and their investment rates are still pathetic.

    You wouldn't see shortages if it has no market. Besides, that only applies if the rate of growth in capacity is too high, not if it is too low. "plenty of room to grow" really translates to "bad manufacturing policy under Chavez and therefore vastly underperforming leading to widespread shortage." It's pretty obvious that you aren't understanding your own argument.

    I'll make my point again so you stop misunderstanding my argument. They have been growing, but that growth is average for the region, manufacturing growth is weak, their currency is overvalued, their investment rate is low, and any decline in oil revenue leads to a proportional contraction.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Perhaps I need to show you the chart again about where their economic growth is completely dependent on oil revenue? Cut out 43% of it, and their economy implodes. Pretty simple concept there.

    Forced is forced, they are forcing investment and their investment rates are still pathetic.

    You wouldn't see shortages if it has no market. Besides, that only applies if the rate of growth in capacity is too high, not if it is too low. "plenty of room to grow" really translates to "bad manufacturing policy under Chavez and therefore vastly underperforming leading to widespread shortage." It's pretty obvious that you aren't understanding your own argument.

    I'll make my point again so you stop misunderstanding my argument. They have been growing, but that growth is average for the region, manufacturing growth is weak, their currency is overvalued, their investment rate is low, and any decline in oil revenue leads to a proportional contraction.
    Most of the growth is Oil, but not all of it .. and it makes sense that most of it is OIl since they nationalized it.

    Forced is not forced, unless you consider every regulation of banking as forced .... in which case every country forces their banks to do stuff.

    If you had no market you'd see surplus', or excess capacity, and saying that the situation in Venezuela with room to grow is better than no market and excess capacity ... WHen the market grows faster than the manufacturing capacity you'll have shortages, that's expected, but its positive that aggrigate demand is higher.

    The region has been following social-democratic policies, the currecny was overvalued before chavez, manufacturing growth is normal and growing, investment rates are not bad, and public investment is high, and no **** if oil drops they loose GDP, but thats true of any oil producing country.

    Here's what else is true, poverty has been cut tremendously, living standards have risen, new economic models have been implimented and are successfull (such as cooperatives), the economy is independant now, rather than a psudo colony.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    The region has been following social-democratic policies....
    Hence the problem...This is what people in this country like you would like to see come here, even though you deny it....

    Social democracy is a political ideology that considers itself to be a form of reformist democratic socialism.[1] It advocates for a peaceful, evolutionary transition of the economy to socialism through progressive social reform of capitalism.[2][3]

    Social democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Originally Posted by Medusa
    emprica ,l dont have any utopia because l know humans are selfish by nature .this utopia can never come true under current conditions .in fact this current condition has never changed since humans learnt to own private properties during agricultural period .
    You and I have extremely conflicting views of humanity__As we know, Homo Sapiens began as savages who lived by the law of the jungle without conscience or morality_

    But according to you, we have changed very little and for the most part are still selfish, uncaring, cold-hearted barbarians who need government to force us to care for one another_

    While my history lessons along with my personal observations has led me to believe that humanity is now more compassionate and charitable than ever and continues to evolve_

    You are obviously the victim of Marxist Indoctrination which has instructed you to trust only your Progressive teachings and to ignore common sense realities that conflict with those lessons_

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Why is it that so many that hate capitalism, live in capitalist countries?
    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    you ask a question which has its own answer in itself
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you think you need to force people to live how you want them to live?
    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    it is your own claim

    no need to lie...............
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Really? And what does that mean? You mean a conservative that likes free markets, and the ability for anyone to make it? Yes, guilty.
    Regarding this discussion about "capitalism" for which Medusa has concluded is unfair and evil_

    Please consider these two absolute realities:

    (1) Capitalism created the wealthiest, freest, most powerful nation in the history of the world_

    (2) More people want to immigrate to the United States than any other nation in the world_

    (especially poor and oppressed immigrants, which sort of flies in the face of Medusa's belief)

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    conservatives like conserving money ?

    hewhe
    Conservatives only "like conserving" the things that have made the United States so successful_

    Capitalism benefits anyone who is willing to work toward the level of success they wish to attain_
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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Most of the growth is Oil, but not all of it .. and it makes sense that most of it is OIl since they nationalized it.

    Forced is not forced, unless you consider every regulation of banking as forced .... in which case every country forces their banks to do stuff.

    If you had no market you'd see surplus', or excess capacity, and saying that the situation in Venezuela with room to grow is better than no market and excess capacity ... WHen the market grows faster than the manufacturing capacity you'll have shortages, that's expected, but its positive that aggrigate demand is higher.

    The region has been following social-democratic policies, the currecny was overvalued before chavez, manufacturing growth is normal and growing, investment rates are not bad, and public investment is high, and no **** if oil drops they loose GDP, but thats true of any oil producing country.

    Here's what else is true, poverty has been cut tremendously, living standards have risen, new economic models have been implimented and are successfull (such as cooperatives), the economy is independant now, rather than a psudo colony.
    This is getting old. I have no interest in dealing with your vague and baseless assertions over and over again. All of the points you have made, I have already addressed and if you refuse to refute me without falling back on your ideological talking points then I'm not going to waste my time.

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