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Thread: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And you are blind or ignoring the facts. Are you seriously saying that you have not heard GOP members float the idea that Obama might not be a citzen to him being a Muslim?

    Poll: 30% Of Republicans Think Obama Is A Muslim

    How do you explain that? As for a citation from a GOP senator or Congressman... come one, politicians are not that dumb, they let their talking heads do the dirty work and you know that. But saying that, there are several "birther" Congressmen and Senators, and that is basically the same thing.
    I couldn't care less what God, if any, Obama prays to_

    But IMO, it is just as ridiculous to claim he is not a Muslim as it is to claim he is a Muslim_

    The simple truth is, the man was so poorly vetted that there is a lot we simply don't know for sure_

    There are so many questionable records, locked files and dark holes in Obama's history that nothing including his religion, birthplace or even education can or should be accepted with absolute certainty_

    And anytime someone does question or present what they believe to be evidence of a cover-up they are immediately attacked by the Main Stream Media as some raving "birther" conspiracist nutcase_

    This fear and avoidance of such widespread public concerns is enough to make any rational mind a little suspicious_
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    this world needs such bravehearts .unfortunately it is usually the good ones who die young ..
    "Whoever controls the past controls the future...Whoever controls the present controls the past" - George Orwell

    Marxist propaganda can only be absorbed when the lessons of history are rewritten_

    Sadly your ideo-political indoctrination has been thorough and totally successful Medusa_

    Welcome to your Party comrade!
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    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Increase local consumption would necessarily mean less exports, and increased imports, however manufacturing HAS gone up Venezuela - value added in manufacturing. ... meaning it's not just Oil.

    As far as the oil prices being low before oil, it doesn't make a difference, because the oil money wasn't staying in Venezuela. Also Oil money dictated by the government is just as organic as Oil money dictated by BP.

    None of this is suprising NOR does it show that Hugo Chavez's economic policy was a failure, or left the country worse off.

    The fact is poveryt has dropped dramatically ADJUSTED for inflation Venezuela's Economic Recovery: Is It Sustainable? | Reports.

    SO none of these problems show that overall the economy is worse off.

    As far as inflation look at it BEFORE chavez ... as far as shortages look at access BEFORE Chavez ... Chavez made things better for the vast majority of venezuelans.
    You're missing the point. He was noble in that he spread the oil money around, however he has done little to diversify their economy. A vast majority of their wealth comes from oil and without oil they would have zero financing for any of the state run projects + poverty without it. Considering how Chavez has crushed their gross fixed capital formation to below 20%, it raising the question of whether Venezuela has enough investment to maintain economic growth.

    Oh and FYI, you can't make the argument that increased their production of non-oil assets has gone up too much considering the ever increasing shortage of basic commodities and ever increasing need for imports. Its not because of "increased local consumption" when the locals aren't able to buy **** because it isn't in stock. Its because of ridiculous price controls and their strong arm tactics to drive producers and sellers out of business. It is the exact same thing we saw in the USSR.

    Btw your "value added" source is only looking at 1990-1998. Chavez took over in 1999. Absolute epic fail of an argument.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    "Whoever controls the past controls the future...Whoever controls the present controls the past" - George Orwell

    Marxist propaganda can only be absorbed when the lessons of history are rewritten_

    Sadly your ideo-political indoctrination has been thorough and totally successful Medusa_

    Welcome to your Party comrade!
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    but l dont own any oil company
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post

    But IMO, it is just as ridiculous to claim he is not a Muslim as it is to claim he is a Muslim_

    The simple truth is, the man was so poorly vetted that there is a lot we simply don't know for sure_

    There are so many questionable records, locked files and dark holes in Obama's history that nothing including his religion, birthplace or even education can or should be accepted with absolute certainty_
    Have you beaten your kids yet today?

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Have you beaten your kids yet today?
    Family planning and mental stability has ensured that I have no children to beat nor a reason to do so if I had!

    So have you beaten your precious little rugrats black and blue as of late TC or haven't you snapped yet today?

    And what does this have to do with the death of an evil communist dictator or our own being properly vetted?
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    but l dont own any oil company
    You don't need one Medusa__Your Marxist Utopia will seize control of existing oil companies along with all great industries to provide you the Social Justice you so very much desire_

    And those magnificent visionaries who dreamed, created and invested their lives and fortunes to build these great industrial empires will be robbed of a lifetime of work and sacrifice_

    And when the producers no longer have an incentive to produce, the wheels of industry invention and innovation will rust and civilization will slowly grind to a halt causing people around the world to ask "where is John Galt?"_

    I seriously doubt you have the slightest idea of what I'm talking about because you live in a fantasy world_
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is one of those statements out of typically 'socialists' that just makes one scratch their heads, and wonder if we live on the same plane of existence....



    Increase in money supply may not be the only driver of inflation, but it is one of the biggies....No doubt about that, it is simple math.
    In 2005-2006, what happened was credit, not increase in money supply, banks were lending money to home buyers, not the central bank pumping money into the economy.

    So this example your giving, is money supply from the consumer standpoint, and infact is a great example of why lowering wages is a bad idea economy wide, because it makes people rely on credit thus leading to bubbles.

    If you simply increase money supply, i.e,. PRINTING MORE MONEY (not credit or that kind of thing), it's not gonna lead to inflation unless it leads to higher demand.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    You're missing the point. He was noble in that he spread the oil money around, however he has done little to diversify their economy. A vast majority of their wealth comes from oil and without oil they would have zero financing for any of the state run projects + poverty without it. Considering how Chavez has crushed their gross fixed capital formation to below 20%, it raising the question of whether Venezuela has enough investment to maintain economic growth.

    Oh and FYI, you can't make the argument that increased their production of non-oil assets has gone up too much considering the ever increasing shortage of basic commodities and ever increasing need for imports. Its not because of "increased local consumption" when the locals aren't able to buy **** because it isn't in stock. Its because of ridiculous price controls and their strong arm tactics to drive producers and sellers out of business. It is the exact same thing we saw in the USSR.

    Btw your "value added" source is only looking at 1990-1998. Chavez took over in 1999. Absolute epic fail of an argument.
    1. THere has been an increase ECONOMY WIDE, meaning he's made more markets for investment, which is why manufacturing and commerce has gone up, when you take the oil money and build infastructure, get rid of poverty and so on, you make an economy where people can invest and build buisinesses internally, which has happened.

    Not increased local consumption, increased demand. But even with these shortages, you still have major increases in living standards, btw, I don't agree with food price controls, I think there are better ways to deal with those issues.

    As far as capital formation ...

    Venezuela - gross capital formation

    I think venezuela is doing pretty well, especially considering how it was DOING.

    You're right about the added value source, I apologise for that. this source Manufacturing (value added) of Venezuela, 1970-2011 goes to 2011, and it shows that percentage wise manufacturing has gone down (as would be expected when you nationalize oil), but numberwise it's gone way up.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    In 2005-2006, what happened was credit, not increase in money supply, banks were lending money to home buyers, not the central bank pumping money into the economy.

    So this example your giving, is money supply from the consumer standpoint, and infact is a great example of why lowering wages is a bad idea economy wide, because it makes people rely on credit thus leading to bubbles.

    If you simply increase money supply, i.e,. PRINTING MORE MONEY (not credit or that kind of thing), it's not gonna lead to inflation unless it leads to higher demand.
    Ahem, And where do banks get their money? Please tell me that you are not so misinformed about the way money effects an economy that you are actually taking the same position as Bernanke on "digitizing money"?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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