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Thread: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The left dont do the "hate" card nearly as much as the right.. it is the whole basis of right wing ideology.. conflict and strife. Now that aint saying that left wingers have not used the boogieman excuse to gain or maintain power... hell Chavez did it, but compared to the right it is relatively minimal.
    You don't live to much in a Big city such as Chicago, NY or L.A......where you can see the hate enmasse. Plus all the chit talkin. Do you?

    Plus I wouldn't confuse that part about Southern Democrats that call themselves Republicans.

    In my experiences one would be more apt to come across one that is a Republican that would show kindness thru action first, and I have been in all 3 of those Major cities. Where population density speaks for it self with the Numbers. Also living in some Southern states and or being around for Business.

    So I doubt you are even close with the perception and population theory.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Am I? You might want to look at the policies and rhetoric coming out of the right......

    Obama is a Muslim.... aint that playing to fears and hatred?
    Obama is a socialist... aint that playing to fears and hatred?


    Are the two above solely used to create conflict between left and right?

    Another example... refusing to compromise... the party of NO... is that not confrontational?

    And I am not saying the left are angels, but compared to the right... come on.

    Provide citation of any congress critter, Senator saying this. Otherwise you are making **** up......Again.
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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    For many of the so called 'Progressives' that is the sum total of where they are progressing to.
    I can't have a debate with even an educated progressive without being accused of hating everyone that isn't me just because I disagree with them on issues.

    Hell, my uncle is a limo liberal (progressive) that is a professor at the University of Illinois that I destroy in a debate every time one occurs, and this guy starts taking political jabs while my grandmother literally lays dead right next to him (she just died that day in hospice).

    I'm thinking to myself: "seriously" this guys mother just died (my grandmother) and he's wining about raising taxes?

    That was certainly not the time to throw political dung yet he did it anyways. But these progressives are supposed to be so caring and so sensitive...

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Thats nonsense.

    Attachment 67143884Attachment 67143885Attachment 67143886Attachment 67143887
    Investment and GDP Growth in Venezuela | venezuelanalysis.com

    Manufacturing has increased, as has trade, as has capital formation.

    I'd like to see the piece by Rueters.
    http://www.cgdev.org/files/1426486_f..._OTC_FINAL.pdf for figure 1 + 9 I forgot to post the link in my response

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Thats nonsense.

    Attachment 67143884Attachment 67143885Attachment 67143886Attachment 67143887
    Investment and GDP Growth in Venezuela | venezuelanalysis.com

    Manufacturing has increased, as has trade, as has capital formation.

    I'd like to see the piece by Rueters.
    And I'd like to have a slightly more neutral source than a left-wing blog.

    EDIT: And this would certainly qualify:

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    http://www.cgdev.org/files/1426486_f..._OTC_FINAL.pdf for figure 1 + 9 I forgot to post the link in my response
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Citgo lowers US, Texas flags to honor Hugo Chavez.....

    March 6, 2013: Venezuelan-based Citgo has its United States headquarters in Houston, and it stirred up controversy when it lowered the U.S. and Texas flags to honor Hugo Chavez. Andy Cerota reports.

    Citgo lowers US, Texas flags to honor Hugo Chavez | News - Home

    I am Surprised those in Texas didn't Riot Citgo when they lowered the US and Texas Flags.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Provide citation of any congress critter, Senator saying this. Otherwise you are making **** up......Again.
    And you are blind or ignoring the facts. Are you seriously saying that you have not heard GOP members float the idea that Obama might not be a citzen to him being a Muslim?

    Poll: 30% Of Republicans Think Obama Is A Muslim

    How do you explain that? As for a citation from a GOP senator or Congressman... come one, politicians are not that dumb, they let their talking heads do the dirty work and you know that. But saying that, there are several "birther" Congressmen and Senators, and that is basically the same thing.
    PeteEU

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Citgo lowers US, Texas flags to honor Hugo Chavez.....

    March 6, 2013: Venezuelan-based Citgo has its United States headquarters in Houston, and it stirred up controversy when it lowered the U.S. and Texas flags to honor Hugo Chavez. Andy Cerota reports.

    Citgo lowers US, Texas flags to honor Hugo Chavez | News - Home

    I am Surprised those in Texas didn't Riot Citgo when they lowered the US and Texas Flags.
    Why? Citgo is owned by the Venezuelan state is it not?
    PeteEU

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Why? Citgo is owned by the Venezuelan state is it not?
    So.....in Venezuela they can lower their Flags. In their Country and whatever city or town they want. There was no reason to lower the US and Texas Flags to half mast. Chavez is not an American. They want to lower flags to half mast lower the Venezuelan Flag and the Citgo Flag.

    This is the US and the State of Texas. American Soil.....not Venezuela. Now if it was their Embassy.....they could lower their flag. Not ours!

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's has bounced between 20 and 40% his entire time as president. It has no direction.

    And I'm not holding water for any previous Venezuelan president, just pointing out to you that your rosy glasses view of the Venezuelan economy is flawed.
    I don't have a rosy view of the Venezuelan economy, all I said is Chavez has made it better for the majority of Venezuelans.

    Growing scarcity of commodities and/or a growing supply in currency leads to inflation. Economic growth is neither of those. In the case of Venezuela it's been a combination of the two.
    There is no evidence that an increase in currency leads to inflation, what would lead to inflation is large amounts of people with disposable income entering the market (increased demand), and without supply matching it, which is economic growth. If more of the profits of industry go to the lower/working classes, if industry doesn't increase production as fast as the wages increase you'll have inflation, but that doesn't mean that it undoes the increase in living standards.

    I never said it wasn't. But if you want to claim economic success under CHavez you have to actually show it. The GNI versus GDP comparison in combination with the inflation doesn't paint the picture of a healthy economy. The only real source of economic advancement in Venezuela has come from the oil industry.

    In fact, the primary reason that the GNI really rose in 2003 was because that was the year when the oil industry was finally nationalized and it's profits were counted in GNI.
    I show it with the vast decrease in poverty, and deep poverty, also I've shown graphs showing that the economic advancement is across industries, manufacuring has gone up, commerce has gone up and so on.

    That GNI vrs GDP argument is a weak one, if a vast amount of your capital and labor power goes into oil and the profits of that go to foreign corporations that is gonna be a major hit to your economy.

    Care to provide a readable graph? And yes, as I said, the GNI was stagnant/declining under Chavez until 2003. When he nationalized the oil industry the GNI started counting all of it's profits towards GNI, AND the cost of crude also sky rocketed.
    The GNI goes up from 1996-2001, drop, then go up again 2003, in that time you had a coup attempt and a giant strike ... That isn't the result of policy.

    US poverty rates are inflation adjusted, but there is no set definition from country to country for the "poverty line".... so what was Venezuela's criteria? Please provide citation.
    They use the same criterion as the US. (Center for economic research)The Chávez Administration at 10 Years: The Economy and Social Indicators | Reports

    You haven't shown that.
    Err, yes, if GDP gros, as well as living standards, and poverty rates drop, those are growth dispite inflation.

    Because Chavez said so? I know that seems to be enough for you, but not for me.
    I never appealed to Chavez, these numbers are pretty well attested ... it's funny that the only solution is that somehow Chavez is fudging the numbers set by international economists .... :P.

    Really? Page 13. Go there. Post is by Harshaw.
    Yeah, I read those, not really a reputable source,

    Hah, "the media all ran the story but nobody thought it was reputable!" .... I see a flaw in your reasoning....
    Did you look at the source? Did you check, that it was just one guy, without qualifications, that is really nothing more than an anti-leftist crusaider? Look at the source.

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