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Thread: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, details (among others) like his somehow becoming a billionaire in the process. How did he do that? Enlighten us.
    Because it's irrelevant even if is it is true and not based on some right-wing hate site. Either way another desperate attempt by the obedient Chavez haters to discredit him that has nothing to do with his policies.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    "far left" "looney left" What devastating
    arguments. I see this webboard is a cut above the others!
    Well, as Venezeula under Cahvez turned back the ideological clock and devolved into a socialist country his neighbors are going towards free enterprise.

    He devalued their dollar and made the poor even poorer as goods and services increased in cost.

    He nationalized the oil industry and his manipulation of it drove up oil prices all over the world.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Because it's irrelevant even if is it is true and not based on some right-wing hate site. Either way another desperate attempt by the obedient Chavez haters to discredit him that has nothing to do with his policies.
    It's hardly "irrelevant" that a hero of socialist revolution made himself a billionaire off the public teat. It makes him a criminal and exactly the kind of evil man you credit him for vanquishing.

    What's hilarious is that you give him a pass for it. You don't even want to talk about it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Because it's irrelevant even if is it is true and not based on some right-wing hate site. Either way another desperate attempt by the obedient Chavez haters to discredit him that has nothing to do with his policies.
    Yeah, it's only irrelevant if a socialist dictator gets rich off his people.

    But when a greedy capitalist conservative does it, that's when you have a problem with it.

    Typical leftist. Thankfully, socialism is on it's way out. Once Venezuela cuts Cuba off the teet, they'll be on their way back to sanity as well. Thank God.
    "Action is the real measure of intelligence." - Napoleon Hill

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer. View Post
    The lives of the poorest in Venezuela improved a hell of a lot under Chavez thanks to the Bolivarian missions.

    infant mortality fell by 18%
    poverty was cut by 50%, extreme poverty was cut from 21% to 10%
    more than 1 million Venezuelans became literate

    and of course, he was democratically elected and elections met all international standards.
    Have you heard the term "to give a man a fish"? All he has done is confiscated Venzuela's oil reserves and used the money to finance anti poverty programs. Which is noble, except that Venezuela has taken longer then any other Latin American country to recover from the economic crisis, they below average economic growth in the region despite running enormous deficits over the last few years (much bigger then ours proportionately), and above average inflation. If things continued under Chavez, once that oil money runs out it would've been a heap of hell considering its seen close to zero foreign investment and Chavez routinely strong armed small local businesses into selling products as a loss in order to keep prices low.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Because it's irrelevant even if is it is true and not based on some right-wing hate site. Either way another desperate attempt by the obedient Chavez haters to discredit him that has nothing to do with his policies.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post

    Yes he "raped their economy" but drastically improving it and the people of the countries lives!
    http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la-2009-02.pdf

    -"The current economic expansion began when the government got control over the national oil company in the first quarter of 2003. Since then, real (inflationadjusted) GDP has nearly doubled, growing by 94.7 percent in 5.25 years, or 13.5 percent annually."
    -"During the current economic expansion, the poverty rate has been cut by more than half, from 54 percent of households in the first half of 2003 to 26 percent at the end of 2008. Extreme poverty has fallen even more, by 72 percent. These poverty rates measure only cash income, and does take into account increased access to health care or education."
    -"
    Over the entire decade, the percentage of households in poverty has been reduced by 39 percent, and extreme poverty by more than half."
    -"
    Inequality, as measured by the Gini index, has also fallen substantially. The index has fallen to 41 in 2008, from 48.1 in 2003 and 47 in 1999. This represents a large reduction in inequality."
    -"
    The labor market also improved substantially over the last decade, with unemployment dropping from 11.3 percent to 7.8 percent. During the current expansion it has fallen by more than half. Other labor market indicators also show substantial gains."
    -"
    Over the decade, the government's total public debt has fallen from 30.7 to 14.3 percent of GDP. The foreign public debt has fallen even more, from 25.6 to 9.8 percent of GDP."



    Welcome to reality.. Not that anti-venezuela dictator "terrorist supporter" **** the used to play on the media day in and day out on TV
    That's quite the cherry picking you've done there. Your "study" shows the statistics since the government took over the oil sector, but it oh so conviently leaves out the circumstances under which the government took over the oil sector. I'm sure you're well aware that in the year 2002, Venezuela saw a coup d'état, three general strikes by the public, and a oil lockout. In the first four months of 2003 alone, their GDP fell by 26%. Most of this "94.7% growth came in the subsequent recovery from that 26% contraction, as well as the 8.9% contraction in 2002. Your own study even shows says that when you start at the pre-recession peak, the growth was only 37.2%.

    However your source falsely claims that "it could be argued that this was difficult" because there was "considerable sabotage" in the oil industry. Baloney. Production had been halted, not damaged, and if there was "considerable sabotage" then why did it take only two months for oil to reach pre-strike levels? Further more, your study's cut off point is 4th quarter of 2008, conveniently before their GDP in current U.S. dollars by nearly 20% from 2010-2011. That's according to the World Bank by the way.


    If one simply looks at Chavez's full term from 1998-2009, instead of cherry picking the difference between the highs and the lows, one finds that the economy grew 4.3% per year, or nearly a third of what you are claiming. And you know where I got that? Your own source.

    The fact of the matter is this. While yes, Venezuela has had growth rates that would be considered exception here in the U.S., overall, their growth rates are not so impressive when compared to other in the region. In fact, from 2004-2012, their growth rates were a mediocre 6th out of 11 comparable countries ~@4.7% per year. Economic Growth in Venezuela | The Americas Blog
    Certainly not the outperformer you claim it to be.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Well, as Venezeula under Cahvez turned back the ideological clock and devolved into a socialist country his neighbors are going towards free enterprise.

    He devalued their dollar and made the poor even poorer as goods and services increased in cost.

    He nationalized the oil industry and his manipulation of it drove up oil prices all over the world.
    More lies. Actually South America has been voting left in country after country the last decade. But don't let the facts with your wild accusations.

    Poverty and extreme poverty plummented under Chavez. 5% growth while the US economy is a basket. He stopped oil companies from exploiting Venezuela and used the oil money to fund his successful program. During the 70s oil boom most of country lived in extreme poverty. I guess factually challenged Chavez haters would prefer that people suffer under capitalism then prosper under socailism. Actually the Chavez haters don't care about South America at all. If did they would condemn Reagans' death squads, the murder of Allende in Chile, Columbia's Arias murdering of labor activists and the US drug war that has led to violence in Mexico and Columbia. They hate Chavez because he has the courage they lack in standing up to corporate fascism. He was far from perfect but his accompishments dwarf those of ciphers like Bush and Obama, who genuflect before corporate power.

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    well once in awhile you do hear some good news!

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    Re: AP: VP of Venezuela Has Announced Hugo Chavez has Died

    as far as l know chavez was not a war criminal
    l wish some real monsters were hated by many people too..
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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