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Calif. woman dies after nurse refuses to perform CPR

ecofarm said:
Hello! The facility has a no-CPR policy that all residents are aware of and still chose, even pay, to live there. The nurse was bound by contract not so different than DNR, entered into with informed consent by residents.
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I don't buy it. I want to see this "informed consent" form, if it even exists. I also want to know how this facility is marketed. A nurse's ethical obligations supersede any contract. It is made abundantly clear in the Code of Ethics that the ethical requirements of being a licensed nurse take priority above all else.
 
LowDown said:
You apparently don't know what the AHA's current recommendations for CPR are. You don't check the pulse any more before starting CPR. You check breathing and responsiveness:
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Only if you are a layperson. The guidelines clearly state that a medical professional may check for a pulse prior to administering CPR as they are trained to detect it.
 
Napoleon said:
I don't buy it. I want to see this "informed consent" form, if it even exists. I also want to know how this facility is marketed. A nurse's ethical obligations supersede any contract. It is made abundantly clear in the Code of Ethics that the ethical requirements of being a licensed nurse take priority above all else.
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Ok, well, when you've accepted that the nurse was, in fact, under legal obligation established by informed consent, come back and let us know.
 
sangha said:
I completely disagree with your characterization of nursing homes (and by implication, assisted living centers, etc). In some cases, children have no choice. If your parent is demented, incontinent, bed-ridden, etc it can be impossible to care for them at home. In addition, depending on the circumstances, these places can provide the patient with a level of socializing they could not get anywhere else.
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I agree. I hope that I am lucky enough to able to die that way, going from fully alive to death in short order. I do not look forward to having a slow, gradual, debilitating and very painful death.
 
ecofarm said:
Ok, well, when you've accepted that the nurse was, in fact, under legal obligation established by informed consent, come back and let us know.
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I'm not going to "accept" anything that hasn't been proven. No one has produced this alleged informed consent form or established that this policy was clearly communicated to this resident. That is one of the reasons why there is an investigation.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I agree. I hope that I am lucky enough to able to die that way, going from fully alive to death in short order. I do not look forward to having a slow, gradual, debilitating and very painful death.
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My mom died from "complications of Alzheimers'"

Quicker is better
 
Napoleon said:
I want to see this "informed consent" form, if it even exists.
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That would be a confidential document. You will need to contact her next-of-kin and request a release of information consent form and submit said form to the home.
 
Napoleon said:
I'm not going to "accept" anything that hasn't been proven. No one has produced this alleged informed consent form or established that this policy was clearly communicated to this resident. That is one of the reasons why there is an investigation.
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Take your time.
 
Napoleon said:
CBS is reporting otherwise and I'm more inclined to err on the side of reason and compassion.



Right, says the daughter who dumped her mother in a death house. Abandoning the elderly is a sick practice in this country.
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A raging on media demand sheeple message totally detached from reality or the truth.
 
Napoleon said:
Once again, as reported by CBS, there was no DNR order and if you don't like the Code of Ethics for Nurses then you'll have to take it up with the American Nurses Association.
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the person on the phone and refused to do cpr was not a nurse. so the ethics for a nurse does not apply.

The orginal news story improperly identified the person.
 
Napoleon said:
Once again, as reported by CBS, there was no DNR order and if you don't like the Code of Ethics for Nurses then you'll have to take it up with the American Nurses Association.
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Citation please. I don't find it. If there was no signed DNR on file, I agree with you. Until that's known for sure? No one has the right to criticize the nurse -- or whoever it was. (Some are saying she was not a nurse....?)
 
joko104 said:
A raging on media demand sheeple message totally detached from reality or the truth.
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Bull.

The elderly are dumped in nursing homes and doped to shut them up and incapacitate them in more than 1 in 5 nursing homes.

One in three nursing homes abuse residents.

The number of elderly dumped in nursing homes is too great for the industry to handle. At least 54% of nursing homes are so understaffed that they cant provide adequate care for their patients.

Ninety-four percent of nursing homes fail federal health and safety standards.

etc etc

MaggieD said:
Citation please. I don't find it. If there was no signed DNR on file, I agree with you. Until that's known for sure? No one has the right to criticize the nurse -- or whoever it was. (Some are saying she was not a nurse....?)
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CBS News has been told the elderly woman in this case did not have a "do not resuscitate" order on file.
 
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MaggieD said:
Citation please. I don't find it. If there was no signed DNR on file, I agree with you. Until that's known for sure? No one has the right to criticize the nurse -- or whoever it was. (Some are saying she was not a nurse....?)
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There was the original caller on her cell phone, then a receptionist, then a nurse, and the nurse was about to hand it to her boss when EMS arrived and the call ended.
 
 
Assisted living =/= nursing home, fyi. Not the same at all.
 
joko104 said:
That has nothing to do with this instance and this was an assisted living facility.
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Sure it does, just goes to show that people are falling all over themselves to abandon their parents to a horrendous fate in these facilities.
 
Napoleon said:
Sure it does, just goes to show that people are falling all over themselves to abandon their parents to a horrendous fate in these facilities.
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No.

I do appreciate your sentiments and wonder about their context. Do you have an elderly parent living or approaching living in an assisted-living facility?

Do you understand the "levels of care" and their progressive nature?

Or are you at this point a theorist?
 
joko104 said:
911 operators are telephone receptionists and nothing else. They have no authority and nothing they say offers any protection.

Setting aside an DNR agreement, CPR on an 86 year old woman could easily be lethal. Show me medical material that CPR in that situation was correct. Was the 911 operator a licensed doctor? Seems you think so.
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Kind of like the 911 operator in the Travon Martin case was not a police officer, so he was in no position to tell Zimmerman to stop following the teen.
 
nota bene said:
No. I do appreciate your sentiments and wonder about their context. Do you have an elderly parent living or approaching living in an assisted-living facility?
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No, but I certainly would not abandon my parents in one of those facilities given the facts I mentioned in post #165. I find such practices to be utterly shameful on moral grounds. The elderly are statistically very likely to be subjected either to abuse, negligence, squalid conditions, or some combination of the three in these places so I'll never understand why anyone would toss them in. My great grandmother had Alzheimer's disease and she lived with my grandmother until the end. The elderly are much better off at home surrounded by the people they love in these instances than around strangers who force-feed them pills to incapacitate them until they finally die alone.

nota bene said:
Do you understand the "levels of care" and their progressive nature? Or are you at this point a theorist?
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I do.
 
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I'm not sure you understand the realities or what "abandonment" means first-hand. Do you? Have you faced this yourself? I mean the reality of having skilled-nursing in your home and the reality, despite your best efforts, of having to sleep sometimes?
 
nota bene said:
I'm not sure you understand the realities or what "abandonment" means first-hand. Do you? Have you faced this yourself? I mean the reality of having skilled-nursing in your home and the reality, despite your best efforts, of having to sleep sometimes?
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No, and no one ever said it would be easy or convenient but those issues are nothing compared to what the elderly face in these facilities. Knowing that the vast majority of these institutions represent an affront to human dignity is enough to dissuade me from ever accepting them as a viable option. The doping and physical abuse aside, 94% don't even meet basic health and safety codes, 30% are so understaffed that they spend less than 12 minutes a day with their patients and residents, and 54% less than two hours! If you're concerned about just taking the time for a few winks then how do you feel about 22 hours of zero interaction, oversight, or care surrounded by health and safety code violations?
 
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