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Woman fired for having sex

Bonzai said:
Christians, Christianity, and Christian institutions are very much legitimate targets in today's world.......................
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Good evening, Bonz.

Whatever happened to the good old "live and let live" thing? :(
 
Grant said:
Easy and forgiving targets is more likely.
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Then I think they all should have thought a little more about involving themselves in the "culture war"..........................
 
Grant said:
The First Amendment says nothing about state supported schools, only that the State cannot establish a religion. I don't know what religion this school follows but it is generally accepted that Christianity is a philosophy and various religions grew from this philosophy.
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Christianity with a small c is the philosophy preached by Christ as given in the Bible: Love thy enemy, have charity, etc. Christianity with a capital C is the religious belief that Christ died for our sins.

It's all well and good to follow Christian philosophy, in fact, the world would be a lot better if people would do so. It's also all well and good to hold the religious belief as well, just as long as it is supported privately and not through the government.

Most Americans are Christians, so more people support the idea of government money being spent to further it. Put the shoe on the other foot, though. Who would support government funding of a school that teaches kids to pray to Allah five times a day? How about one that teaches Wiccan rituals? If one religion can be supported publicly, then why not any?
 
Grant said:
It seems that lawyers are always fighting for more rights and freedoms while we wind up having fewer and fewer of them.

Why not let the Christian school alone, let a contract be honored, and allow people get on with their lives.
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The school probably has a legal department, which is why I'm surprised they have a clause in their hiring contracts banning homosexuals. That raises a huge red flag for me, as far as legality goes. Either they have bad counsel, or they just chose to ignore it. Either way, I would strongly encourage them to drop this from future hiring contracts or they will find themselves in trouble sooner or later.

For what it's worth, I think the school will win its case against this woman. I think it's a stretch for her to say she was fired for being pregnant. She was fired for having pre-marital sex, which, to my understanding, isn't illegal.
 
Grant said:
The First Amendment says nothing about state supported schools, only that the State cannot establish a religion. I don't know what religion this school follows but it is generally accepted that Christianity is a philosophy and various religions grew from this philosophy.
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Grant said:
The First Amendment says nothing about state supported schools, only that the State cannot establish a religion. I don't know what religion this school follows but it is generally accepted that Christianity is a philosophy and various religions grew from this philosophy.
Click to expand...

Christianity with a small c is the philosophy preached by Christ as given in the Bible: Love thy enemy, have charity, etc. Christianity with a capital C is the religious belief that Christ died for our sins.

It's all well and good to follow Christian philosophy, in fact, the world would be a lot better if people would do so. It's also all well and good to hold the religious belief as well, just as long as it is supported privately and not through the government.

Most Americans are Christians, so more people support the idea of government money being spent to further it. Put the shoe on the other foot, though. Who would support government funding of a school that teaches kids to pray to Allah five times a day? How about one that teaches Wiccan rituals? If one religion can be supported publicly, then why not any?
 
Grant said:
Easy and forgiving targets is more likely.
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Then I think they all should have thought a little more about involving themselves in the "culture war"..........................
 
kerussll said:
No question she broke the contract; I don't think that's what's in question. But do we really want to let employers dictate our private lives? Do they have a right to ask employees to sign such a ridiculous contract promising things that have nothing to do with the ability to perform the job well?
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Why not? The military does it.
 
Bonzai said:
Then I think they all should have thought a little more about involving themselves in the "culture war"..........................
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How can Christianity not be a part of the culture war? It has always been involved.

Don't those living in the democracies support The Golden Rule? There are many in this world who don't.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Christianity with a small c is the philosophy preached by Christ as given in the Bible: Love thy enemy, have charity, etc. Christianity with a capital C is the religious belief that Christ died for our sins.

It's all well and good to follow Christian philosophy, in fact, the world would be a lot better if people would do so. It's also all well and good to hold the religious belief as well, just as long as it is supported privately and not through the government.

Most Americans are Christians, so more people support the idea of government money being spent to further it. Put the shoe on the other foot, though. Who would support government funding of a school that teaches kids to pray to Allah five times a day? How about one that teaches Wiccan rituals? If one religion can be supported publicly, then why not any?
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If Wiccans or Muslims follow the school curriculum and (as in the case of many Muslims schools) do not teach that others are in any way inferior, then I don't have a problem with that.

But all these children must be taught the common language as well as American history and the values for which it stands. There must be a unity of common purpose in order for a nation, culture or society to succeed. There has been some recent conflicts in some of these areas.
 
Peter Grimm said:
The school probably has a legal department, which is why I'm surprised they have a clause in their hiring contracts banning homosexuals. That raises a huge red flag for me, as far as legality goes. Either they have bad counsel, or they just chose to ignore it. Either way, I would strongly encourage them to drop this from future hiring contracts or they will find themselves in trouble sooner or later.

For what it's worth, I think the school will win its case against this woman. I think it's a stretch for her to say she was fired for being pregnant. She was fired for having pre-marital sex, which, to my understanding, isn't illegal.
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I'm not aware of any homosexual clause but if it exists I'd certainly be against it. Homosexuals are also 'God's creatures' and because they are homosexual should not make them immoral in the eyes of God, their creator.

I doubt that she was fired for having premarital sex because no one need have known of it had she not become pregnant. That would be, in their eyes anyway, flaunting it.
 
Grant said:
How can Christianity not be a part of the culture war? It has always been involved.

Don't those living in the democracies support The Golden Rule? There are many in this world who don't.
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Christianity has destroyed Western Civilization.......................
 
I've not made it through all 57 pages but I tripped across this hyocritical ****...

But James said she was humiliated after being pulled into her supervisor's office last fall, where she was asked if she was pregnant and then was let go. After James lost her job, she claims the school offered a position to her now-husband, even though they were aware he'd had sex before getting married, too.

link...​

It's only offensive if a woman has premarital sex. What nonsense.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I think we do.

We may have a little different point of view on the issue of teaching religion paid for by tax dollars. Doing so in the USA would be a clear violation of the First Amendment to the Constitution. In Canada, of course, the laws are not the same. Still, you don't have an official state religion there do you?
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No, we don't have a state religion, but our country was originally founded between sections of the country that had French origins, almost totally Catholic, and English origins, almost totally Protestant. The terms of our original constitution contained provisions that required each to fund education in both public and "separate" schools - separate being Catholic in the English provinces and Protestant in the French province. Over the 150 years of our country, these "constitutional" rights to separate, government funded education have be eroding except in my province, Ontario, where the government in the 80's extended additional funding to Catholic schools making them the equivalent of public schools - this party was defeated in the next election, but the funding has remained. Over 30% of the province is Catholic and although about 50% of the province wants to get rid of government funding for Catholic schools, no political party will move in that direction because of the significant disruption to the systems, because the Catholic schools are considered by many superior, and because it would likely be political suicide. Other provinces have moved away from the two systems, but not all. In fact, in Ontario, one political party ran on a platform of funding all forms of religious schools and although they started out as the party in the lead, they ended up being badly defeated in the election. Religious education and elections definitely don't mix.

As an aside, the UN has criticized Canada's education system for funding one set of religious schools but not all. I would be in favor of funding education for all children in all schools who gain accreditation from the government regardless of their faith background.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Except it's not moot. In the US you can't be discriminated against for employment for: (according to the EEOC)

- religion
- race
- gender
- age
- sexual orientation
- disability
- genetic disease
- pregnancy
- childbirth

The only thing on that list that is your own decision is religion, which is not a constitutionally protected right in the work place. The only laws that protect religion in the work place are these same discrimination laws.

Whether anyone here agrees whether or not all of these things should be things companies can't discriminate on, they are regardless. Seeing as how they're there, why would we not want to cover marital status, or the most natural and important thing to human life: procreation?
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But in American, you, yourself, can sign away any right you have which is what she did. The HOA cases that were taken on by the ACLU and lost are a prime example. If the HOA says you can't fly an American flag and you sign on the line agreeing to it, then you have signed away that part of your freedom of expression. She signed away her right to have sex outside of marriage when she accepted the job and signed agreement with the policy.
 
Peter Grimm said:
The school probably has a legal department, which is why I'm surprised they have a clause in their hiring contracts banning homosexuals. That raises a huge red flag for me, as far as legality goes. Either they have bad counsel, or they just chose to ignore it. Either way, I would strongly encourage them to drop this from future hiring contracts or they will find themselves in trouble sooner or later.

For what it's worth, I think the school will win its case against this woman. I think it's a stretch for her to say she was fired for being pregnant. She was fired for having pre-marital sex, which, to my understanding, isn't illegal.
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Well, if Chic-fil-a is any indication, the school isn't going to suffer any. I was in the one in Nashville the other day and I've never seen a place so crowded with young families.
 
Maenad said:
But in American, you, yourself, can sign away any right you have which is what she did. The HOA cases that were taken on by the ACLU and lost are a prime example. If the HOA says you can't fly an American flag and you sign on the line agreeing to it, then you have signed away that part of your freedom of expression. She signed away her right to have sex outside of marriage when she accepted the job and signed agreement with the policy.
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That doesn't matter. In the US there are discrimination laws. Nobody can sign a contract with an employer giving away their right to be homosexual, christian, black, pregnant, or anything else on that list. This is about what an employer can reasonably ask of an employee.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
That doesn't matter. In the US there are discrimination laws. Nobody can sign a contract with an employer giving away their right to be homosexual, christian, black, pregnant, or anything else on that list. This is about what an employer can reasonably ask of an employee.
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You most certainly can.
 
Grant said:
If Wiccans or Muslims follow the school curriculum and (as in the case of many Muslims schools) do not teach that others are in any way inferior, then I don't have a problem with that.

But all these children must be taught the common language as well as American history and the values for which it stands. There must be a unity of common purpose in order for a nation, culture or society to succeed. There has been some recent conflicts in some of these areas.
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I agree with that, but don't think the Wiccans, Muslims, Christians, or anyone else should be allowed to use tax dollars to teach their religious dogmas. Do you?
 
CanadaJohn said:
No, we don't have a state religion, but our country was originally founded between sections of the country that had French origins, almost totally Catholic, and English origins, almost totally Protestant. The terms of our original constitution contained provisions that required each to fund education in both public and "separate" schools - separate being Catholic in the English provinces and Protestant in the French province. Over the 150 years of our country, these "constitutional" rights to separate, government funded education have be eroding except in my province, Ontario, where the government in the 80's extended additional funding to Catholic schools making them the equivalent of public schools - this party was defeated in the next election, but the funding has remained. Over 30% of the province is Catholic and although about 50% of the province wants to get rid of government funding for Catholic schools, no political party will move in that direction because of the significant disruption to the systems, because the Catholic schools are considered by many superior, and because it would likely be political suicide. Other provinces have moved away from the two systems, but not all. In fact, in Ontario, one political party ran on a platform of funding all forms of religious schools and although they started out as the party in the lead, they ended up being badly defeated in the election. Religious education and elections definitely don't mix.

As an aside, the UN has criticized Canada's education system for funding one set of religious schools but not all. I would be in favor of funding education for all children in all schools who gain accreditation from the government regardless of their faith background.
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That's an interesting bit of history I didn't know.

Here, we have people who would fund religious schools, but, in general, only of religions they follow or at least approve of. Meanwhile, we have a tradition of separation of church and state that has served us well thus far.

As for funding education for all children in all schools who gain accreditation from the government regardless of their faith background, why not for schools that teach secular curriculum only and leave the religious education up to the parents and churches?
 
Dittohead not! said:
I agree with that, but don't think the Wiccans, Muslims, Christians, or anyone else should be allowed to use tax dollars to teach their religious dogmas. Do you?
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The school being discussed is a private school.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Correct. We already discussed that, and the case was made (not by me) that the school was getting federal funds.
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It doesn't matter. If she got a copy of the HR manual and agreed to the policy she has no case.
 
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