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Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

Actually it probably was in the millions. Seriously on average about 3 million people a year are killed by tyrants and governments. Of course the vast majority of those millions are not armed.


jamesrage said:
The way the media and anti-2nd amendment tards act you would think these mass shootings would be in the millions.
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apdst said:
Elected officials don't have carte blanche to pass any law they want. That's why we have a costitution.
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You know what? You can think what you like. Maybe after you read what I said and actually prove you can understand it and other things in English, I will post something in reply.
 
Black Manta said:
That is a lie. But par for the course.

Your dishonesty is amazing. You start off with it's the gun laws that caused a crime drop in NY and for some reason you mention Bloomberg as if he is responsible. Then I show why you are wrong on both counts and all of a sudden you are well the conceal carry laws are to restrictive as if all of a sudden you are a supporter of gun rights and the 2nd amendment.

Your posts are comical and show you know nothing on the subjects and you start off making clueless rants, then when busted out on your liberal crap, you switch so you can try to save face.

Funny how everyone can see this, and yet you still do it like all of us are stupid but you.
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No, I said it was the strict gun regs in NYC combined with the stop and frisk policy. That's why you will never quote me saying that the crime drop in NYC was the result of the gun laws alone.

And you'll also never quote me saying the the CCW laws are too restrictive either. You need to make stuff up because your arguments are worthless
 
sangha said:
No, I said it was the strict gun regs in NYC combined with the stop and frisk policy. That's why you will never quote me saying that the crime drop in NYC was the result of the gun laws alone.

And you'll also never quote me saying the the CCW laws are too restrictive either. You need to make stuff up because your arguments are worthless
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so what is your opinion on NYC carry laws given you appear to reside near there (I can not recall exactly what is the lower hudson valley. I know Rye, I know Larchmont, I know Westchester and I know where the USMA is and the CIA)
 
TurtleDude said:
so what is your opinion on NYC carry laws given you appear to reside near there (I can not recall exactly what is the lower hudson valley. I know Rye, I know Larchmont, I know Westchester and I know where the USMA is and the CIA)
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I've been pretty clear about my opinion. It is that combined with stop and frisk, they have contributed to a drop in gun crime.
 
sangha said:
I've been pretty clear about my opinion. It is that combined with stop and frisk, they have contributed to a drop in gun crime.
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I was not asking about the stop and frisk but the "may issue" nature of CCW permits. I don't think making NYC a SHALL issue jurisdiction would hurt the cause.

Yonkers? I was trying to figure the area. A guy I knew from college is perpetually running for office up there
name is Chuck Lesnick
 
sangha said:
I've been pretty clear about my opinion. It is that combined with stop and frisk, they have contributed to a drop in gun crime.
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And as I have pointed out correctly the CCW laws had nothing to do with it. We have it here in Florida as well. I wonder how many gang banger's have one? How about none. They all have criminal records that disallow them from ownership.

Even the article I posted shows the exact same thing. You have posted? That's right nothing, because you were wrong then and you are wrong now.
 
sangha said:
No, I said it was the strict gun regs in NYC combined with the stop and frisk policy. That's why you will never quote me saying that the crime drop in NYC was the result of the gun laws alone.
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That is exactly what you tried to say and it is wrong either way.

sangha said:
And you'll also never quote me saying the the CCW laws are too restrictive either. You need to make stuff up because your arguments are worthless
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Yea right wink, wink we believe you.
 
TurtleDude said:
I was not asking about the stop and frisk but the "may issue" nature of CCW permits. I don't think making NYC a SHALL issue jurisdiction would hurt the cause.

Yonkers? I was trying to figure the area. A guy I knew from college is perpetually running for office up there
name is Chuck Lesnick
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Never heard of Chuck

And I have no problems with may issue
 
Black Manta said:
And as I have pointed out correctly the CCW laws had nothing to do with it. We have it here in Florida as well. I wonder how many gang banger's have one? How about none. They all have criminal records that disallow them from ownership.
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Gee, and just earlier to day you were claiming that it's so easy to get a CCW in NYC.

Now, not so much

In reality, NYC has the well-earned reputation for being one of the hardest places to get a CCW permit. TurtleDude noted that we actually have lawyers that specialize in helping people get CCW's because so many get rejected
 
sangha said:
Never heard of Chuck

And I have no problems with may issue
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so you think wealthy connected people should get permits while minorities or the poor cannot
 
sangha said:
I have no problems with may issue
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I have massive problems with leaving that to the discretion of bureaucrats.

I believe there should be a liability clause that allows someone denied to personally sue if they were denied

there should be no discretion IMHO
 
sangha said:
Gee, and just earlier to day you were claiming that it's so easy to get a CCW in NYC.
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New York State. I admit I had it confused. Whats your excuse? hehehe.

sangha said:
In reality, NYC has the well-earned reputation for being one of the hardest places to get a CCW permit. TurtleDude noted that we actually have lawyers that specialize in helping people get CCW's because so many get rejected
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That has nothing to do with the crime drop. So it has nothing to do with it.
 
sangha said:
And yet, you never back it up with any facts
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Oh really?

Your initial quote and my reply...

sangha said:
In NYC (you know, the city that Bloomberg is actually the Mayor of) they did exactly that. They studied the problem, and came up with a solution. Now, gang-related shootings have dropped dramatically.

Can anyone guess which policies contributed greatly to this reduction in gun crime?
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Black Manta said:
Well it was not the gun laws since Chicago's gun laws were just as restrictive and yet they are high on the crime list. It was aggressive policing that helped turn it around....

"The department began analyzing victim reports daily to target resources to where crime patterns were emerging. Top brass held commanders accountable for the safety of their precincts. And officers were expected to intervene when they observed someone acting suspiciously—maybe asking the person a few questions, perhaps frisking him if legally justified. In so doing, they sent the message in violence-plagued areas that law and order was still in effect. - Heather Mac Donald: How to Return New York City to the Street Gangs - WSJ.com

As Chicago, Detroit and Washington DC shows gun laws had almost nothing to do with it.

A little research goes a long way.
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So wrong again.

sangha said:
And yet again, you won't back it up with a quote of mine saying what you claimed I said
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I don't have to. You have posted no evidence at all, none. All the evidence supports what I have been saying.

Try again.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have massive problems with leaving that to the discretion of bureaucrats.

I believe there should be a liability clause that allows someone denied to personally sue if they were denied

there should be no discretion IMHO
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I think there are valid points on both sides of this issue, but may issue has worked out well for NYC. It's hard to argue with success.
 
Black Manta said:
New York State. I admit I had it confused.
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I wasn't talking about NY State. You were the only one



That has nothing to do with the crime drop. So it has nothing to do with it.
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The tight CCW regs combined with stop and frisk have contributed to the drop in gun crimes in NYC
 
sangha said:
I think there are valid points on both sides of this issue, but may issue has worked out well for NYC. It's hard to argue with success.
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I disagree-people shouldn't have to hire a lawyer (assuming they can afford one) to have a carry right. and a shall issue environment has not proven to lead to more crime in any area where it has been implemented.

I find it amusing that the anti gun editor of the NYT and Joan Rivers can get a carry permit but your average Cabbie cannot
 
Black Manta said:
Oh really?

Your initial quote and my reply...


So wrong again.



I don't have to. You have posted no evidence at all, none. All the evidence supports what I have been saying.

Try again.
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You have yet to post a quote of mine where I say that gun regs alone caused the drop in crime, as you dishonestly claimed.
 
sangha said:
I wasn't talking about NY State. You were the only one





The tight CCW regs combined with stop and frisk have contributed to the drop in gun crimes in NYC
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are you saying that

if people were able to get CCWs in a shall issue environment that would hurt NYCs effort?
 
TurtleDude said:
are you saying that

if people were able to get CCWs in a shall issue environment that would hurt NYCs effort?
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No, what I said was that NYC's strict regs combined with stop and frisk contributed to the drop in gun crime.
 
sangha said:
No, what I said was that NYC's strict regs combined with stop and frisk contributed to the drop in gun crime.
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I saw you saying that strict CCW (may issue)

Here it is

sangha said:
I wasn't talking about NY State. You were the only one





The tight CCW regs combined with stop and frisk have contributed to the drop in gun crimes in NYC
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so again how would a shall issue environment interfere with this policy
 
TurtleDude said:
so again how would a shall issue environment interfere with this policy
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He is dishonest. He knows damn well he was going to say the "strict gun laws" because CCW in NYC has nothing at all to do with the drop in crime, nothing. He was also not going to mention what I did.

Don't even bother he will just twist and lie some more.
 
TurtleDude said:
I saw you saying that strict CCW (may issue)

Here it is




so again how would a shall issue environment interfere with this policy
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Yes, I did single out the strict CCW regs. For give me for not saying the same exact thing every time.

And as far as how shall issue would change things, I'm not a psychic. I do believe in not fixing things that aren't broken
 
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