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Thread: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

  1. #171
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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You had point?
    and you missed it. Shocker.

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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Pasch's 2c

    There are two primary issues with guns and gun violence in this country. The first, more than ANYTHING ELSE, is poverty. Poverty causes crime. It drives people into gangs, it drives them into black market enterprises, it makes people desperate. The single most effective way to combat crime is to combat poverty. You need to get people educated, employed, and middle class, and crime, especially violent crime, will go down. The only kinds of crime that aren't reduced by getting people out of poverty are crimes of passion, which really can't be prevented anyway.

    Except maybe for the second issue. Anti-social attitudes. Extreme individualism and an "us vs them" mentality all contribute to violence. That is why the pro gun crowd is wrong. Even when they are correct, which they sometimes are, the violent and isolationist mentality that they espouse is dangerous to the safety of the country. Paranoia and distrust within a community make people willing to hurt each other.

    Also, there is one uncomfortable truth that the pro gun group has to deal with. The real main cause of gun violence in this country is because of the proliferation of guns. That only happens because of the huge market for private ownership. If you guys weren't buying guns the way you do, there would not be guns for criminals to steal from you and use to hurt people. However, it's too late to undo that, unless the market disappears. Stop buying guns, stop being a market for guns to be made and sold, and they will disappear over time.

    I was very VERY surprised at Joko's numbers about the number of gun uses to stop crime per year. I read the studies those numbers come from and while it doesn't take into account the problem that any number of the uses of guns may have been unnecessary. But I highly doubt that ALL of them were. So perhaps private gun ownership really is a deterrent to innocent people being victimized by crime. But it was private gun ownership that enabled criminals to get guns to violence the innocent with in the first place. But again, the guns are here, so we need to think about the future.

    The way to reduce violent crime is by getting people out of poverty. That's all there is to it.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  3. #173
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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Pasch's 2c

    There are two primary issues with guns and gun violence in this country. The first, more than ANYTHING ELSE, is poverty. Poverty causes crime. It drives people into gangs, it drives them into black market enterprises, it makes people desperate. The single most effective way to combat crime is to combat poverty. You need to get people educated, employed, and middle class, and crime, especially violent crime, will go down. The only kinds of crime that aren't reduced by getting people out of poverty are crimes of passion, which really can't be prevented anyway.

    Except maybe for the second issue. Anti-social attitudes. Extreme individualism and an "us vs them" mentality all contribute to violence. That is why the pro gun crowd is wrong. Even when they are correct, which they sometimes are, the violent and isolationist mentality that they espouse is dangerous to the safety of the country. Paranoia and distrust within a community make people willing to hurt each other.

    Also, there is one uncomfortable truth that the pro gun group has to deal with. The real main cause of gun violence in this country is because of the proliferation of guns. That only happens because of the huge market for private ownership. If you guys weren't buying guns the way you do, there would not be guns for criminals to steal from you and use to hurt people. However, it's too late to undo that, unless the market disappears. Stop buying guns, stop being a market for guns to be made and sold, and they will disappear over time.

    I was very VERY surprised at Joko's numbers about the number of gun uses to stop crime per year. I read the studies those numbers come from and while it doesn't take into account the problem that any number of the uses of guns may have been unnecessary. But I highly doubt that ALL of them were. So perhaps private gun ownership really is a deterrent to innocent people being victimized by crime. But it was private gun ownership that enabled criminals to get guns to violence the innocent with in the first place. But again, the guns are here, so we need to think about the future.

    The way to reduce violent crime is by getting people out of poverty. That's all there is to it.
    translation

    collectivists hate individualism

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  4. #174
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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    The city of Chicago alone topped that 7 year total in less than 2. Pretty remarkable when you think about it. And as the article says...that is LESS THAN 1% of all killings. Meanwhile...in that same 9 year span there have been just under NINETY THOUSAND murders, dominantly committed by gangs and against minorities. Funny...less than 1% gets all the press. No...wait...that's not funny. That's...sad.

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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, I did single out the strict CCW regs. For give me for not saying the same exact thing every time.

    And as far as how shall issue would change things, I'm not a psychic. I do believe in not fixing things that aren't broken

    So you then ARE saying that gun laws in NYC are sufficient and the crime rates including gun crime rates are acceptable?

  6. #176
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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Pasch's 2c

    There are two primary issues with guns and gun violence in this country. The first, more than ANYTHING ELSE, is poverty. Poverty causes crime. It drives people into gangs, it drives them into black market enterprises, it makes people desperate. The single most effective way to combat crime is to combat poverty. You need to get people educated, employed, and middle class, and crime, especially violent crime, will go down. The only kinds of crime that aren't reduced by getting people out of poverty are crimes of passion, which really can't be prevented anyway.

    Except maybe for the second issue. Anti-social attitudes. Extreme individualism and an "us vs them" mentality all contribute to violence. That is why the pro gun crowd is wrong. Even when they are correct, which they sometimes are, the violent and isolationist mentality that they espouse is dangerous to the safety of the country. Paranoia and distrust within a community make people willing to hurt each other.

    Also, there is one uncomfortable truth that the pro gun group has to deal with. The real main cause of gun violence in this country is because of the proliferation of guns. That only happens because of the huge market for private ownership. If you guys weren't buying guns the way you do, there would not be guns for criminals to steal from you and use to hurt people. However, it's too late to undo that, unless the market disappears. Stop buying guns, stop being a market for guns to be made and sold, and they will disappear over time.

    I was very VERY surprised at Joko's numbers about the number of gun uses to stop crime per year. I read the studies those numbers come from and while it doesn't take into account the problem that any number of the uses of guns may have been unnecessary. But I highly doubt that ALL of them were. So perhaps private gun ownership really is a deterrent to innocent people being victimized by crime. But it was private gun ownership that enabled criminals to get guns to violence the innocent with in the first place. But again, the guns are here, so we need to think about the future.

    The way to reduce violent crime is by getting people out of poverty. That's all there is to it.
    Poverty definitely is a MAJOR cause of crime and violence. Narcotics also is a cause including needing the money for the drugs - which isnt' really a poverty issue. Rape, of course, knows no economic boundaries or parameters.

    Your next to last paragraph assumes that the only time a gun is needed for self defense is if the criminal/attacker has a gun. That is a false presumption - particularly in relation to attacks against women and the elderly.

    It is impossible to know just how many violent attacks and crimes are stopped by the mere presense or suspicion of the presence of a firearm. However, a clue we have is in the statistics of the UK's level of violent crimes, which is consistently over 200% higher than in the USA, although murder and gun death rates are lower.

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    Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Poverty definitely is a MAJOR cause of crime and violence. Narcotics also is a cause including needing the money for the drugs - which isnt' really a poverty issue. Rape, of course, knows no economic boundaries or parameters.

    Your next to last paragraph assumes that the only time a gun is needed for self defense is if the criminal/attacker has a gun. That is a false presumption - particularly in relation to attacks against women and the elderly.

    It is impossible to know just how many violent attacks and crimes are stopped by the mere presense or suspicion of the presence of a firearm. However, a clue we have is in the statistics of the UK's level of violent crimes, which is consistently over 200% higher than in the USA, although murder and gun death rates are lower.
    The poverty excuse only goes so far. Worse than poverty is the decades of 'help' in the form of welfare, excuses, and justification of violent behavior. Meanwhile, legal and illegal immigrants pour into this country by the millions and manage to start from nothing, less than nothing, work their ass off, and find success.

  8. #178
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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Quote Originally Posted by oncewas View Post
    Just my opinion," one mass shooting and killing " is way to many! ijs
    One mass shooting does not justify ****ting on the 2nd amendment rights of millions of Americans.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    One mass shooting does not justify ****ting on the 2nd amendment rights of millions of Americans.
    It does to me,i'll take "Human Life " over any 2nd amendment rights. Like I said before that's my opinion and i'm entitled to mines,you're entitled to your's !


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  10. #180
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    Re: Mass shootings toll exceeds 900 in past seven years

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Stop and frisk worked because they targetted people they thought were carrying concealed weapons in violation of NYC's tight gun safety regulations.
    It makes perfect sense, of course, that those who hold the Second Amendment in such utter contempt have no more regard for the Fourth Amendment either, or of the Constitution as a whole.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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