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Thread: Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

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    Re: cyber wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Chinese espionage with regards to technology is hardly a flaw, its entirely in their national interest. Developing new technology yourself is more expensive and slower than using already existing solutions. When the U.S. was starting to industrialize we cheerfully ripped of the British in building our own technological base. Once China has caught up, then they will start researching their own stuff. You might not like what they are doing, but you can hardly deny its effectiveness.
    They lack ethics and integriy. They learned it from th corporate world.

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    Re: cyber wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    They lack ethics and integriy. They learned it from th corporate world.
    Both the United States and China are directly responsible for the deaths of massive numbers of innocent people over the years. The idea that industrial espionage has any kind of moral weight in comparison is ridiculous. Stealing technological data is a far more ethical way for nation states to work out their problems than the usual methods.

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    Re: Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Chinese espionage with regards to technology is hardly a flaw, its entirely in their

    national interest. Developing new technology yourself is more expensive and slower than using already existing solutions. When the U.S. was starting to industrialize we cheerfully ripped of the British in building our own technological base. Once China has caught up, then they will start researching their own stuff. You might not like what they are doing, but you can hardly deny its effectiveness.

    That sounds pretty generic. Your telling me everything the US is responsible for was ripped off from another Country.

    Look its deeper than that. They build apple products over their. They know the tech but still they copy tech.

    Only in a truly free society can the ecouragment of new ideas breed in to new products or technology.

    Look at the old Soviet Union. Years ago we all were amazed at their new MiG25 FoxBat. They even made a movie.

    And then a Soviet pilot flew one over and it turned out to be a flying tank with a massive jet engine in it.

    It had steel skin on it and was the size of a 727.

    Not so cool any more.

    20 years earlier the US built the SR-71 Black bird.
    Last edited by Fenton; 02-22-13 at 04:57 PM.

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    Re: Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Both the United States and China are directly
    responsible for the deaths of massive numbers of innocent people over the years. The idea that industrial espionage has any kind of moral weight in comparison is ridiculous. Stealing technological data is a far more ethical way for nation states to work out their problems than the usual methods.
    Espionage is espionage. Wait, now its justified because its being done xith computers ?

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    Re: Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

    That sounds pretty generic. Your telling me everything the US is responsible for was ripped off from another Country.
    Of course not. We simply borrowed British industrial advancements when we were still behind in the 19th century, just like the Chinese are doing now.

    Look its deeper than that. They build apple products over their. They know the tech but still they copy tech.

    Only in a truly free society can the ecouragment of new ideas breed in to new products or technology.

    Look at the old Soviet Union. Years ago we all were amazed at their new MiG25 FoxBat. They even made a movie.

    And then a Soviet pilot flew one over and it turned out to be a flying tank with a massive jet engine in it.

    It had steel skin on it and was the size of a 727.

    Not so cool any more.

    20 years earlier the US built the SR-71 Black bird.
    You have no idea what you are talking about. The Soviets made a zillion technological breakthroughs during the cold war. The MiG-25 was a simple aircraft because that makes it cheap to build and easy to maintain. The Blackbird is fastest aircraft of all time, but its impractical that it literally leaks fuel on the runway because of thermal constraints. There is a reason why more than 1000 Mig-25s were produced vs 32 SR-71s. You also got your dates wrong, both aircraft had their first flight in 1964.

    Espionage is espionage. Wait, now its justified because its being done xith computers ?
    Espionage is a standard part of international relations. The U.S. and China are both engaged in such behavior even as we speak. I obviously don't want Chinese efforts to succeed, but I hardly am going to whine about the immorality of it either. Its simply the way the game is played.

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    Re: Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

    Everyone steals from one another. That concept, if you're above the age of, I guess, 18, should be rudimentary.

    Countries steal technology or trade secrets or just secrets any way that they can. The US has done it to the UK. China has done it to the US. Israel has done it to the US. The US has hacked France. Russia and the US have targeted each other. Etc etc. Espionage is happening right now as you read this. Every country on the face of earth is always trying to get ahead. And if they have to steal, (and then lie about it) they will.

    Nevertheless, since I am American, my allegiance is with my country. I look at cyber intrusions as Acts of War, same as the government defines it. And when people are hacking our systems, damaging our networks and stealing our intellectual property, well, we obviously need to do something about it. I don't know if dropping bombs that weigh several tons is the answer, or if escalating a Cyber War is appropriate, but there has to be something that can be done to safeguard our vital computer interests, at home, and abroad.

    Maybe DARPA can develop some nasty anti-intrusion stuff... I don't know, I'm not at all that techy, but I know that between writing some advanced code and War, I would choose the former.

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    Re: Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Of course not. We simply borrowed British
    industrial advancements when we were still behind in the 19th century, just like the Chinese are doing now.



    You have no idea what you are talking about. The Soviets made a zillion technological breakthroughs during the cold war. The MiG-25 was a simple aircraft because that makes it cheap to build and easy to maintain. The Blackbird is fastest aircraft of all time, but its impractical that it literally leaks fuel on the runway because of thermal constraints. There is a reason why more than 1000 Mig-25s were produced vs 32 SR-71s. You also got your dates wrong, both aircraft had their first flight in 1964.



    Espionage is a standard part of international relations. The U.S. and China are both engaged in such behavior even as we speak. I obviously don't want Chinese efforts to succeed, but I hardly am going to whine about the immorality of it either. Its simply the way the game is played.
    Actually your'e the one void of any objective information on the mig or the black bird.

    Other than a 5 minute forray into Google.

    Good thing I'm FAA licensed to work on Aircraft.

    The FoxBat wasn't made to be "simple and easy to work on".

    No military makes a jet with those parameters as a priority. It makes a jet like that because of limitations not because of its "practical".

    There were no limitations to the SR-71, your using its fuel leaks as a way to criticize a airplane that was 30 years ahead of its time.

    It was designed to leak fuel on takeoff due to thermal expansion at its mach speeds.

    I use to work with a old russian who immigrated to the US who was in the soviet military. He would brag about the shooting down of American U2 aircraft. When I asked about the SR-71 he admitted that there was nothing they could do except build mock installations.

    Your obviously commited to mitigating any American advance which are varied and many.

    China CURRENTLY steals information, technology and private property.

    So understand if I think that your GUESS that they may one day turn into a Nation that produces original technology is based on your flawed analysis of history.

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    Re: Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Actually your'e the one void of any objective information on the mig or the black bird.

    Other than a 5 minute forray into Google.

    Good thing I'm FAA licensed to work on Aircraft.
    Being a licensed FAA mechanic gives you zero qualifications regarding supersonic military aircraft.

    The FoxBat wasn't made to be "simple and easy to work on".
    Yes it was. Most Soviet military equipment was maintained by conscripts and often in really remote areas.

    No military makes a jet with those parameters as a priority. It makes a jet like that because of limitations not because of its "practical".
    Actually readiness rate is one of the most importance considerations for military aircraft. There is little point in having a super-cool tech toy if it isn't available to fly. The C-130 is still in service for that exact reason.

    There were no limitations to the SR-71, your using its fuel leaks as a way to criticize a airplane that was 30 years ahead of its time.
    The SR-71 was a dedicated reconnaissance aircraft built in tiny quantities. Its performance is unmatched, but it can do exactly one thing and at great cost.

    It was designed to leak fuel on takeoff due to thermal expansion at its mach speeds.
    Leaking fuel all over the place is an obvious pain in the ass and a massive safety hazard. It was fine for the blackbird because it only built in tiny numbers and had specialized crews, but would have been unacceptable for general use. There is reason why other military aircraft don't hit Mach 3+ even if it is technically possible.


    I use to work with a old russian who immigrated to the US who was in the soviet military. He would brag about the shooting down of American U2 aircraft. When I asked about the SR-71 he admitted that there was nothing they could do except build mock installations.
    The SR-71 never flew over Russia, so your story is full of crap.

    Your obviously commited to mitigating any American advance which are varied and many.
    No, I am committed to the realities of engineering. Your accusation is laughable especially given that I work towards American technological advances.


    So understand if I think that your GUESS that they may one day turn into a Nation that produces original technology is based on your flawed analysis of history.
    Once you steal/license enough technology to catch up to the current state of the art, you have no choice but to build your own. You can look at the historical progress of the Americans, Soviets and Japanese to see how it works. Once the Chinese can no longer progress by stealing, they will obviously turn to R&D. China already produces a variety of its own designs for military equipment.

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    Re: Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Report: China military involved in U.S. hacking

    Scary stuff. What might a cyber war between the US and China be like?
    ........might? It looks like from your reporting that maybe a better word selection might be "Is This"

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    Re: cyber wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Yeah...umm.... I'm sure the USofA has never "hacked" its way into places "we" shouldn't be.....

    because "we're" all about playing fair, and doing the what's right, and taking the moral high ground......

    What's your point? We are the US of A, we do what we want.

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