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Thread: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Actually, we've been through this before, the pill is not prescribed anymore in the vast majority of these cases. And even in the small amount it is, it is not the majority of why the pill is used. You know that, but like most arguments that surround this sort of issue, the left latches on to the 1 in 100K example to justify the broad coverage, and deflect why the standard application is what they want.
    I don't know that. All I know is I was prescribed it for severe pain when nothing else worked, why should people like me be denied it in a healthcare plan because other people are upset if someone else uses it for sex?
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    I don't know that. All I know is I was prescribed it for severe pain when nothing else worked, why should people like me be denied it in a healthcare plan because other people are upset if someone else uses it for sex?
    You wouldn't have been denied it when prescribed for treatment other than BC, because the codes, and prescription itself, although chemically the same, it is not billed the same as BC. So, the argument is moot.
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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    This sometimes is why the super-femme-nazi's get on my last nerve . . . they lose their ability to logically reason through **** - look:

    This is what he said:


    Just how should that reworded to be 'not-offensive' because when you're talking about sexual discrimination in the workplace it's obvious he's addressing men who DO the discriminating . . . and he's trying to get these stupid men to think of these women as someone's mother, someone's wife, someone's daughter - etc . . . You know - see them as people and respect them. It's a negotiation tactic, actually.

    Just what exactly do they want to hear instead?

    You know - since they're so much smarter than me on this maybe they can give an example of what's acceptable.

    Uh no - they just want it to be said, "We know of economy is stronger when women can live their lives free from discrimination in the workplace and free from the fear of domestic violence."

    Well call me a retarded rock - because that just doesn't deliver the same personal message to me. It's cold and distant - merely defining women by their gender alone and nothing more, don't you think?

    LOL - but I am laughing at the 'we know our economy is stronger' - what the **** does sexual discrimination have to do with the economy?
    LOL - not a damn thing.
    Well, he was pandering to all facets of the base, and women are the kingmakers of late. Just a few points--women can be vicious with each other in the workplace too; in the age with so many single moms, women making less does adversely impact our economy via the need for more welfare, less economic velocity, etc; and financial woes are the leading cause of divorce so it would seem logical that they contribute to domestic violence that precedes divorce in some cases and it would be harder for some to seek that divorce if they did not think they could survive on their own. Either way, it was nothing more than pandering for applause.

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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    There's actually a very good point being made here that is getting lost in the partisan debate. It is demeaning for women to be defined by their relationships to men. It shouldn't matter at all that a woman is someone's wife or mother or daughter. It implies that an unmarried orphan woman is somehow less valuable.

    If the emotional appeal being used undermines the logical position being promoted, the emotional appeal is a terrible one.
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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You wouldn't have been denied it when prescribed for treatment other than BC, because the codes, and prescription itself, although chemically the same, it is not billed the same as BC. So, the argument is moot.
    ...but we're talking about future universal healthcare that everyone would be paying for and birth control comes up time and time again as something that they would not want covered so I don't think the argument is moot that Obama is for women in at least some way by being for a health care plan that includes healthcare specific to women.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Just how should that reworded to be 'not-offensive' because when you're talking about sexual discrimination in the workplace it's obvious he's addressing men who DO the discriminating . . . and he's trying to get these stupid men to think of these women as someone's mother, someone's wife, someone's daughter - etc . . . You know - see them as people and respect them. It's a negotiation tactic, actually.
    The problem is that those stupid men who commit sexual discrimination already view women as inferior possessions. His appeal to emotion reinforces that position, at least subconsciously.

    Those stupid men won't be swayed by emotional appeals like this, either. Anyone who is already willing to subjugate others doesn't give a **** about other people's feelings. they care about "My wife, my mother, my daughter", not anyone else's mother wife or daughter.

    It's a self-defeating tactic. The only way that a man like that would change is if it WAS his own wife, mother, or daughter who was directly affected, and even then, the daughter would be the best bet since most of those types have wives and mothers who fit with their worldview already. The daughter is the most likely to "rebel" against that kind of thing.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    ...but we're talking about future universal healthcare that everyone would be paying for and birth control comes up time and time again as something that they would not want covered so I don't think the argument is moot that Obama is for women in at least some way by being for a health care plan that includes healthcare specific to women.
    Birth control is a tool used in a political rhetoric filled wedge from the administration to force religious institutions, and people of faith to cover something they are morally opposed to paying for. It is a measure of control, nothing more. Why should I as a taxpayer be forced to cover your BC for you, so that you can engage in an elective practice with no responsibility on your part to protect yourself in the matter?

    What is the nature of the debt from me to you, that I should pay for that?

    You want to have sex? pay for the BC yourself.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Good.

    I don't necessarily think that he's a misogynist -- probably just careless -- but this kind of language referring to women is prevalent and it's demeaning. Women are more than simply whatever domestic role they happen to be involved in.

    Women are always "mother" or "wife." They're never just "women." On the other hand, men are always men, in ADDITION to be a father, husband, whatever. And a man who's a father can also be a businessman, but women who are mothers are still just mothers even if they're businesswomen.

    Men are prefaced as "a man," and then it might say, "who is a father of ___ with his loving wife, and works at a local business" For women, it's just "a mother/wife."

    Men are recognized as multifaceted, and women are routinely pegged as one-dimensional. For men, their independent identity is always mentioned first (man), and their relational identities second. For women, their independent identities are rarely mentioned at all.

    Whatever relationship women are involved in is forced on her as the totality of her identity, as though she has nothing outside of those roles to others, which are implied to be servile.

    Seriously. Take a look at the front page of whatever local news organization you prefer. Look at five stories about men, and five about women -- people who are not famous, and who are not themselves criminals.

    Tell me how many of them refer to a woman as "mother/wife" right off the bat, and how many refer to men as "father/husband" right off the bat. For fun, count up how many of them never say "woman" at all. For even more fun, look up some articles about female criminals and count up how many times they say "woman" (hint: it's a lot more).
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 02-22-13 at 10:24 AM.

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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Good.

    I don't necessarily think that he's a misogynist -- probably just careless -- but this kind of language referring to women is prevalent and it's demeaning. Women are more than simply whatever domestic role they happen to be involved in.

    Women are always "mother" or "wife." They're never just "women." On the other hand, men are always men, in ADDITION to be a father, husband, whatever. And a man who's a father can also be a businessman, but women who are mothers are still just mothers even if they're businesswomen.

    Men are prefaced as "a man," and then it might say, "who is a father of ___ with his loving wife, and works at a local business" For women, it's just "a mother/wife."

    Men are recognized as multifaceted, and women are routinely pegged as one-dimensional. For men, their independent identity is always mentioned first (man), and their relational identities second. For women, their independent identities are rarely mentioned at all.

    Whatever relationship women are involved in is forced on her as the totality of her identity, as though she has nothing outside of those roles to others, which are implied to be servile.

    Seriously. Take a look at the front page of whatever local news organization you prefer. Look at five stories about men, and five about women -- people who are not famous, and who are not themselves criminals.

    Tell me how many of them refer to a woman as "mother/wife" right off the bat, and how many refer to men as "father/husband" right off the bat. For fun, count up how many of them never say "woman" at all. For even more fun, look up some articles about female criminals and count up how many times they say "woman" (hint: it's a lot more).

    Nonsense in search of outrage. Listen, women should take pride in carrying the title of the primary raiser of this nations children....I can hardly think of a more important job, or a tougher one.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Petitioners paint Obama as ‘misogynist’ who’s ‘alienating’ women

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The problem is that those stupid men who commit sexual discrimination already view women as inferior possessions. His appeal to emotion reinforces that position, at least subconsciously.

    Those stupid men won't be swayed by emotional appeals like this, either. Anyone who is already willing to subjugate others doesn't give a **** about other people's feelings. they care about "My wife, my mother, my daughter", not anyone else's mother wife or daughter.

    It's a self-defeating tactic. The only way that a man like that would change is if it WAS his own wife, mother, or daughter who was directly affected, and even then, the daughter would be the best bet since most of those types have wives and mothers who fit with their worldview already. The daughter is the most likely to "rebel" against that kind of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Well, he was pandering to all facets of the base, and women are the kingmakers of late. Just a few points--women can be vicious with each other in the workplace too; in the age with so many single moms, women making less does adversely impact our economy via the need for more welfare, less economic velocity, etc; and financial woes are the leading cause of divorce so it would seem logical that they contribute to domestic violence that precedes divorce in some cases and it would be harder for some to seek that divorce if they did not think they could survive on their own. Either way, it was nothing more than pandering for applause.
    I still don't see how saying someone is a wife/mother/daughter defines them by their relationship to MEN.

    Wife = could be a homosexual marriage as is permitted in several states.
    Mother = no men need to be around for this. She could be single with all girls, even.
    Daughter = again - doesn't need a male figure there - could just have a mom.

    This is stating your relationship to OTHERS in your life - just relationships . . . if people cared in general about that then they'd have issues with the opposite. Yet I've never heard someone get pissed when they say "our husbands, fathers and sons" . . . it's just a common phrasing. Definitely no petitions go around when this is used, here.

    It's a non-issue.

    They should save the petitions for real ****.

    And of all the things he did SAY in that speech - I'm kind of pissed that women who are supposed to be more active when it comes time to vote only give a **** about his reference to women in that regard - and nothing else?

    This is why many women still have a problem getting said men to take them seriously: all the women doing the 'representation' are birthing cows over relationship references and not the **** that matters like the economy and cost of shoes. (snide joke - not serious about the shoes)
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 02-22-13 at 02:12 PM.
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