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Thread: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

  1. #71
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Time for the other side of the coin. Friend of mine is an elctrical engineer out in Cali, he set up a home solar setup. He did all the work, set up all the components and its a small set up meant to ease his bills, not totally eliminate them. His ROI is 9 years at current rates. BUT because of all the tax breaks involved in solar he got a gigantic tax deduction for it. New father too, so for the first time in a long time, he may have actually broke even on his taxes. Hes been a net payer for 15 plus years.

    His new project is a tankless water heater kit hes assembling himself. Hes not going to get off the grid but as an engineer he sees a lot ways to make investments that lower his month to month costs and is taking the deductions before they disappear.
    Well that makes some sense. ROI on the whole home systems are typically 15 years, warranties on the inverters, maybe 10, 15 years.

    If you make it to your ROI and you lose that inverter, ( I work with Inverters , actually Variable Frequency Drives and 15 years is pushing it) then you get to dive right back into that ROI because it's been extended. Its the second most expensive component in the rig. If your panels become damaged or shorted, that's the most expensive component you own and it's up to you to refinance another one.

    I'm not opposed totally to solar and I love the tech. But the push from the Govt to get people into a very expensive system isn't based on it's practicality or durability.


    As a electrical engineer he may have knowledge but the Electrical engineers I've run into in my past 30 years of electronic troubleshooting and industrial controls and power analysis were not competent as installers. Maybe he's the exception.
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Time for the other side of the coin. Friend of mine is an elctrical engineer out in Cali, he set up a home solar setup. He did all the work, set up all the components and its a small set up meant to ease his bills, not totally eliminate them. His ROI is 9 years at current rates. BUT because of all the tax breaks involved in solar he got a gigantic tax deduction for it. New father too, so for the first time in a long time, he may have actually broke even on his taxes. Hes been a net payer for 15 plus years.

    His new project is a tankless water heater kit hes assembling himself. Hes not going to get off the grid but as an engineer he sees a lot ways to make investments that lower his month to month costs and is taking the deductions before they disappear.
    You are probably referring to a grid tied system. Now the tankless water heater is an entire different story. Those are actually an improvement with the only "con" being you have to "wait" for the hot water. Of course I"ve never lived in a home where the water was instantly hot. I will be building a new home over the next few years. I will utilize all the possible energy saving concepts available. Not because they are all economical but because I don't like energy companies. LOL Go figure. Completely off grid solar/wind systems are not economical, period. If you put in a grid tied system yes the ROI is reduced, but it's still a capital investment up front. You are also still dependent on the grid because true grid tied systems do not function if you lose grid power. The only true viable and economic sense alternative systems are hydroelectric. They have made great strides in low flow hydroelectric as well.

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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Oceandan View Post
    Unless I'm sadly mistaken the best available batteries need to be replaced every 5-7 years.
    And they're about 900 bucks a piece. They make look like car batteries but they're not and I think they're 6 volts each. Same batteries they use on large UPS backup systems for server rooms. Those get changed out every 5 years whether they need it or not.
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Indeed, storage is one of the greatest weaknesses in our system. Also, transmission efficiencies need to improve (we lose 47% of what we generate in the transmission).

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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Time for the other side of the coin. Friend of mine is an elctrical engineer out in Cali, he set up a home solar setup. He did all the work, set up all the components and its a small set up meant to ease his bills, not totally eliminate them. His ROI is 9 years at current rates. BUT because of all the tax breaks involved in solar he got a gigantic tax deduction for it. New father too, so for the first time in a long time, he may have actually broke even on his taxes. Hes been a net payer for 15 plus years.

    His new project is a tankless water heater kit hes assembling himself. Hes not going to get off the grid but as an engineer he sees a lot ways to make investments that lower his month to month costs and is taking the deductions before they disappear.

    Also you have to have a plumbers master license to install a tank-less water heater. AND he would have to have the job permitted.

    Those types of local regulations, permits and requirements actually make sense. Its laws like that that are written blood plus IF he does it himself and there an issue, huge water leak causes water damage, didn't run the flu and correctly and pumps CO into his home or causes a fire his Home Owners policy will NOT cover the damage if no permit was pulled.
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Also you have to have a plumbers master license to install a tank-less water heater. AND he would have to have the job permitted.

    Those types of local regulations, permits and requirements actually make sense. Its laws like that that are written blood plus IF he does it himself and there an issue, huge water leak causes water damage, didn't run the flu and correctly and pumps CO into his home or causes a fire his Home Owners policy will NOT cover the damage if no permit was pulled.
    He got permits. Hes also a stationary engineer, training in plumbing, heating, air conditioning, chilling towers, electrical, IT wiring and installation, etc etc. He works for the California data base maintaining all the systems in the building. I should say he works for the company contracted to maintain it.

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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    He got permits. Hes also a stationary engineer, training in plumbing, heating, air conditioning, chilling towers, electrical, IT wiring and installation, etc etc. He works for the California data base maintaining all the systems in the building. I should say he works for the company contracted to maintain it.
    Gotcha.
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Germany doesn't get much sun. Solar power makes little sense there. Sounds like someone built a bridge to nowhere.

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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Germany doesn't get much sun. Solar power makes little sense there. Sounds like
    someone built a bridge to nowhere.
    We currently sit on a massive amount of clean burning natural gas.

    There are legimate cheap alternatives and theyr'e being ignored.

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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    We currently sit on a massive amount of clean burning natural gas.

    There are legimate cheap alternatives and theyr'e being ignored.
    Actually. We're tapping that NG like mad, driving the price down into the dumpster. My heating bill has never been lower.

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