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Thread: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

  1. #121
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Now you're moving the goal posts. So you do agree that there was warming. Good. Therefore you also agree the headline was misleading. It wasn't a discussion as to the cause of that trend, or lack of trend.

    Next, statistically significant is a term with specific meaning. It's not a synonym for "important" like how you'd normally use the word "significant." It essentially is a measure of how confident you are that the observed trend is indeed an underlying trend, rather than a result of random noise. Temperature, as I'm sure you know, fluctuates up and down from year to year, and quite a bit. So if you take a tiny data set you can easily be fooled into seeing a trend, or lack thereof, that isn't really there.


    Wouldn't you consider using data sampling of 150 or so years, out of several billion that the planet has been in existence is also such a small slice of time as to negate any 'real' scientific conclusions about any trends that are, or are not occurring, and the cause of these possible changes?

    If you ask me, I don't know if the earth is actually warming, or if it is just another contrived political ploy to whip up the masses with fear, and other hyperbole designed to make people say, "help us", thus giving up rights, control, and money in the form of taxes.
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wouldn't you consider using data sampling of 150 or so years, out of several billion that the planet has been in existence is also such a small slice of time as to negate any 'real' scientific conclusions about any trends that are, or are not occurring, and the cause of these possible changes?
    No, because statistical significance doesn't work that way. It also speaks nothing to the cause of those trends, merely their existence. The cause is a different discussion.

    If you ask me, I don't know if the earth is actually warming, or if it is just another contrived political ploy to whip up the masses with fear, and other hyperbole designed to make people say, "help us", thus giving up rights, control, and money in the form of taxes.
    Now we're back to a conspiracy theory involving millions of fabricated temperature recordings.

    I'm not sure there's even anybody left in the scientific community still having the "is it happening" discussion.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, because statistical significance doesn't work that way. It also speaks nothing to the cause of those trends, merely their existence. The cause is a different discussion.
    Are we really arrogant enough to believe that we can control climate?

    Now we're back to a conspiracy theory involving millions of fabricated temperature recordings.
    The movement left itself open to that as soon as they abandoned practical science, for political concerns, and outside agendas. East Anglea didn't help either.
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Are we really arrogant enough to believe that we can control climate?
    Nobody said that. There's a difference between "let's control climate" and "let's stop messing with climate so much." And you're changing the subject again. You still never admitted that the Daily Mail headline was misleading.

    The movement left itself open to that as soon as they abandoned practical science, for political concerns, and outside agendas. East Anglea didn't help either.
    Oh, right, you probably think the "trick" to "hide the decline" involved hiding temperature measurement records that show a decline in global temperature. Which proves you didn't even read the email in question.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Nobody said that. There's a difference between "let's control climate" and "let's stop messing with climate so much." And you're changing the subject again. You still never admitted that the Daily Mail headline was misleading.
    It really is no more, or less than what the MSM, and other outlets do on a daily basis to right leaning sources, and stories....The press is largely unbelievable on both sides of the spectrum these days. On a scale of 1-10 I'd say it was misleading at a level of maybe 2.

    Oh, right, you probably think the "trick" to "hide the decline" involved hiding temperature measurement records that show a decline in global temperature. Which proves you didn't even read the email in question.
    Well, there really is a question about where these data collecting sensors are placed, as well as you explaining what in the world science has to do with discrediting dissent? Do we really want to cling to theory that has many holes poked into it, solely to put into place control measures over peoples lives including everything from taxes, to how cool, or warm they keep their house, to what they purchase, to taking land, to telling them what kind of toilet, or light bulb they can buy for God's sake? Come on man....
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I am sure man made global warming fairy tale believers do the same thing. This is why I find it amusing when these man made global warming fairy tale religious zealots whine and cry how big oil is funding some anti-man made global warming fairy tale study.
    Could you be anymore of a partisan hack?

    As I already said: I'm against secret lobbying in a democratic society. Government bribery needs limitations applied, including that every dollar should be traceable so we know who is behind it.

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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Could you be anymore of a partisan hack?

    As I already said: I'm against secret lobbying in a democratic society. Government bribery needs limitations applied, including that every dollar should be traceable so we know who is behind it.
    Ok, so dress every congress critter in NASCAR style jump suits with sponsor patches so we know who bought them. I can see that.....
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It really is no more, or less than what the MSM, and other outlets do on a daily basis to right leaning sources, and stories....The press is largely unbelievable on both sides of the spectrum these days. On a scale of 1-10 I'd say it was misleading at a level of maybe 2.
    It said no warming. There was warming.

    Well, there really is a question about where these data collecting sensors are placed, as well as you explaining what in the world science has to do with discrediting dissent?
    That's not what the "climategate" emails were about. The bloggers tried to tell you it was referring to a decline in global temperatures that was being hidden. It wasn't. And since the issue being discussed was actually published in previous papers, even calling it "hidden" is quite a stretch. I, for one, wouldn't publish information or questions I wanted "hidden." The supposed "suppression of peer review?" The emails quite clearly indicate the reason behind trying to keep a particular paper out of a particular report: It was deeply flawed. Trenberth's "travesty" that they "couldn't account for the lack of warming?" Not a hidden opinion either, he published a paper too. And the response emails indicate this was his personal opinion, because several of the other scientists basically said "check in on this other research by these folks. We can account for it."

    But none of these things are made apparent to you in the blogs, on Rush Limbaugh's show, etc. They counted on the fact that you'd never, ever check for yourself.

    Do we really want to cling to theory that has many holes poked into it, solely to put into place control measures over peoples lives including everything from taxes, to how cool, or warm they keep their house, to what they purchase, to taking land, to telling them what kind of toilet, or light bulb they can buy for God's sake? Come on man....
    Many of the "holes" are either fabricated or inaccurate, and you're grossly exaggerating what is being proposed.

    There are definitely uncertainties, but that's the case in literally every scientific field.
    Last edited by Deuce; 02-25-13 at 07:07 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #129
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It said no warming. There was warming.


    That's not what the "climategate" emails were about. The bloggers tried to tell you it was referring to a decline in global temperatures that was being hidden. It wasn't. And since the issue being discussed was actually published in previous papers, even calling it "hidden" is quite a stretch. I, for one, wouldn't publish information or questions I wanted "hidden." The supposed "suppression of peer review?" The emails quite clearly indicate the reason behind trying to keep a particular paper out of a particular report: It was deeply flawed. Trenberth's "travesty" that they "couldn't account for the lack of warming?" Not a hidden opinion either, he published a paper too. And the response emails indicate this was his personal opinion, because several of the other scientists basically said "check in on this other research by these folks. We can account for it."

    But none of these things are made apparent to you in the blogs, on Rush Limbaugh's show, etc. They counted on the fact that you'd never, ever check for yourself.



    Many of the "holes" are either fabricated or inaccurate, and you're grossly exaggerating what is being proposed.

    There are definitely uncertainties, but that's the case in literally every scientific field.

    Well, like I said it has been discussed so many times that I am not going through it again...But suffice to say that the moment GW went from science, to global political wealth redistribution, it ceased to be science anymore.
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    Re: Secret funding helped build vast network of climate denial thinktanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    Could you be anymore of a partisan hack?

    As I already said: I'm against secret lobbying in a democratic society. Government bribery needs limitations applied, including that every dollar should be traceable so we know who is behind it.
    The partisan hack is the one presenting the article as though its only anti-man made global warming fairy tale studies that are funded by those who do not believe in the man made global warming fairy tale. Man made global warming fairy tale studies are funded by people who believe in man made global warming fairy tale religion, but yet we are led to believe that these people are somehow unbiased.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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