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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    There are no sources legitimate or otherwise for hyperbolic left wing rhetoric and Democrat talking points...with the exception of MSNBC
    Dont care, I just want the original source material so I can judge its content for myself, as well as the author.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by DannyRux View Post
    You also can't open the mind of a person who is fanatical about an ideology. You might not be "religious", you are definitely a fanatic. Not much better.

    I'm a conservative... I know why... Please, ask me anything.
    I'm neither fanatical nor an ideologue. I'm sure to you I appear that way, being a conservative, but thats because I don't hold to an ideology. I accept change. Ideologies don't change. They're doctrinaire. The framework I come from permits a rationalist to be characterized as one who is willing to entertain any position and holds all his positions, including his most fundamental standards, goals, and decisions, and his basic philosophical position itself, open to criticism; one who never cuts off an argument by resorting to faith, or irrational commitment to justify some belief that has been under severe critical fire; one who is committed, attached, addicted, to no position. Can you say as much? I doubt it, since you're committed to the ideology of conservatism. I know that I'm fallible and I could be wrong about a host of things. I also know that a fallible human cannot create an infallible ideology. You sayh you're a conservative? Are you fallible? Could you or your ideology be wrong about anything? Fine. You're a conservative. What do you base your conservatism on?
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    [emphasis added by bubba]
    let's look at this sentence, not because it is correct; it isn't. teens are not subject to minimum wage provisions for the first 90 days of their employment. but i want to contrast this statement that minimum wage, like trix, is for kids with your following statement:

    notice how you here recognize that other than teens are accepting jobs despite that those jobs pay only the minimum wage


    establishing a minimum wage for one. during good times, few would settle for minimum wage because employers could not find enough qualified workers for the jobs they needed filled. minimum wage in that environment was of nominal purpose. but notice your own argument tells us now that adults are now willing to accept minimum wage positions to feed their families. and if that minimum wage floor was not so established those employees would have no alternative but to accept lower wages
    Their concern for the youth is touching. Really...touching. They want to cut Pell Grants that could help them afford college, they voted against reducing the interest rates on student loans, but now they're concerned over their ability to compete with adults who are now in a position themselves of having lost a job and taking anything to keep their families from losing their homes, and those jobs are paying them minimum wage. Skilled, educated workers having to take a minimum wage job just to get something to survive. WalMart alone would elevate 700,000 people out of poverty by raising the limit and those people will spend their money back into the economy which puts a greater demand on companies to hire. Consumer spending is what drives the economy.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    I'm neither fanatical nor an ideologue..............
    This begs for a second opinion.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    QUOTE Fenton

    For a start ? And then what, as already taxed and burdrned small bussiness struggle to try and make up for the mandated raises ? Or are you saying it would benefit them as well ?

    They can pay higher prices on office supplies, higher unemployment insurance, pay a higher rate of withholding on every employee who recieves the raise.
    Where did you get the idea, from my post that I said it wouldn't burden small business? It would more than likely be a burden for the 34% of small business that employ FEWER than 100 employees but those with more than 100 employees,who employ the remaining 66% of low-wage workers? Well. They've been skatin for the last 12 years, while those making minimum have seen living expenses such as groceries raise 13%,housing 10%,utilities 12%; not to mention gas and HEALTHCARE…if any, are headin for an emergency rooms while the rest of us are footen the bill.



    How did you quantify the "10 billion dollar injection " ?[/QUOTE]


    http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.pdf
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    That's nonsense, I suppose if min wage wasn't raised the employers would take that money and hide it under their mattress. You're taking money out of one pocket and putting it in another pocket and claiming to have more money. And keep in mind the GEs & Microsofts of the world don't employ min wage employees, it's the little guys that get to deal with the aftermath. I have no doubt that a year after min wage is raised we'll be listening to the left complain about how there are fewer jobs for low skilled workers. A min wage increase will increase the employers labor costs, maybe if we put some new taxes and costly regulations on them as well we might see more hiring.

    Speaken of nonsense. Do you proofread your post before you hit the send button?
    "I suppose if min wage wasn't raised the employers would take that money and hide it under their mattress. "
    Explain where this pile of straw comes from what i posted.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Youre new here, so you may not know this.

    If you use a source, you need to cite it.
    That was easy enough to find.


    Obama plans a more transparent budget - Los Angeles Times
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Your saying Obama's massive unprecedented spending is the fault of Bush's Wars ?And the fact that 8 and a half million people have dropped out of the work force are due to Bush's wars...that Democrats voted for ? And the 800 billion Stimulus that was spent on public sector jobs and bankrupt green energy companies was because of the Wars ? ...that Democrats voted on ? And the fact Obama lied about "infrastructure" and "shovel ready jobs" was about Bush's two wars ?

    And yes "most of the electorate are full on morons '', at least 60 million of them, for believing the likes of Obama and his useful idiots. Sorry, he's been running a trillion dollar defecits, spent over 900 billion last quarter alone and our economy shrunk. Must have been " the two wars ".

    He's been in office long enough for SANE people to know this is his disaster and no one elses.

    I mean I wondered what the Liberals were going to do as far as explaining his failure after he was first elected. Because I knew his ideology was going to create misery. I mean you people elected a guy because the media told you to. How embarrasing.

    I never figured you would after 4 years of failure and 50 million new food stamp recipients, an exploding debt and deficits, no net new jobs, record amounts of people applying for SS disabillity benefits, States still slipping further into the red because there are no jobs...blame BUSH.

    I thought as morally and ethically bankrupt as you liberals are, that your willing to sell your integrity for a vote in a heart beat, that you would still possess some measure of pride. But no, it appears youv'e compromised that too.

    What did you get for it ? A lottery ticket ? Bet you lost.

    Look its not my fault or Bush's you were born to limited to handle the basic cognitive principle of arithmetic...I bet you can "cipher" though...LOL ! Jethro Clampet

    You say it takes years to assess Obama's "implemented" policies ? LOL !!! What a pathetic attempt at mitigation. It's been years, theyv'e failed and miserably.

    I mean what a desperate , arbitrary thing to say. How many years ? 30 ?

    Because I wish Captain Dip**** had let us in on that important bit of information. "It will take years for my policies to pan out until they can be called failures or successes ".

    People need jobs YESTERDAY Jethro. Actually I think the effect of his policies have pretty much panned out.

    Hi unemployment, desperate American families struggling for the foreseeable future, the Country on the verge of bankruptcy, the Fed monetizing our debt ( I know over your head ) Europe struggling and Countries like Germany reporting shrinking economies too. Desperate Democrats wasting bandwidth trying to salvage any measure of self respect they can, by blaming Bush...lol

    As it turns out I could have told you Feb 1st 2008 this is what was going to happen.

    I can hardly wait to hear your next set of excuses. They get more. and more comical and make less and less sense.

    Your saying Obama's massive unprecedented spending is the fault of Bush's Wars ?
    No. I'm saying that the deficit that you are outraged over ignores the fact that the wars were kept off the books. It was by design, done to show a smaller deficit than actually existed. And Obama has slowed spending more than any recent president. You were willing to vote for Romney who proposed $5 Trillion in massive unfunded tax cuts, and another $2 Trillion in Defense. That's $7 Trillion added to the deficit, you know, the deficit that you hate>

    And the fact that 8 and a half million people have dropped out of the work force are due to Bush's wars...that Democrats voted for ?
    Two things. 1.The Democrats voted on the intelligence that the White House was providing which turned out to be a lie. Once they realized it they all renounced their own votes. 2. The voted for the war, not creative accounting of it. Our economy collapsed as a result of 1.3 Trillion in tax cuts and another 1.5 two years later. And 9/11, And two unfunded wars, and Wall Street insanity. You might want to remember that we were losing 800,000 jobs a month at the end of Bush transitioning to Obama. That trend was turned around and the recovery began. It took 8 years to wreck the economy. Nobody should have thought it would come roaring back immediately. How many people that have dropped out of the work force have begun their own business rather than try working for somebody else. I did that very thing years ago.

    And yes "most of the electorate are full on morons '', at least 60 million of them, for believing the likes of Obama and his useful idiots
    As opposed to the genius's that voted for Bush??? It's so friggin easy to call the people that beat you in an election morons isn't it? Face it. The country has changed, and like the good little conservative you hate change. Conservatism is defined as the ideology arising out of a distinct but recurring type of historical situation in which a fundamental challenge is directed at established institutions and in which the supporters of those institutions employ the conservative ideology in their defense. Thus, conservatism is that system of ideas employed to justify any established social order, no matter where or when it exists, against any fundamental challenge to its nature or being, no matter from what quarter. Conservatism in this sense is possible in the United States today only if there is a basic challenge to existing American institutions which impels their defenders to articulate conservative values. The Civil Rights movement was a direct challenge to the existing institutions of the time, and conservatism as an ideology is thus a reaction to a system under challenge, a defense of the status – quo in a period of intense ideological and social conflict. Today it's gay's, hispanics, even women. (conservatives even opposed the womens right to vote...so this is nothing new)

    He's been in office long enough for SANE people to know this is his disaster and no one elses.
    Nahh,.. I don't think so. And you guys are in no position to tell us about what SANE is. Just look at the clown show you put up to run. You actually had people like Trump in the lead, then Bachmann, then Perry for more humor, then the performance artist Herman Cain, Gingrich, the Ayatolla Sanitarium, and finally when all of them proved to be caricatures of the hopeless ideologue, you end up with Romney the Magnificent, whose high wire circus act of somersaults and flip flops were worthy of the Olympic gymnasitcs team. Yeah man...tell about SANE. Go ahead.

    I mean I wondered what the Liberals were going to do as far as explaining his failure after he was first elected. Because I knew his ideology was going to create misery. I mean you people elected a guy because the media told you to. How embarrasing.
    So you hated him even before he got elected? Interesting. Obama doesnt hold ideologies. He leaves that to conservatives. Obama is more of a pragmatist. The fact that you think I or anybody else voted for him because the media told me to is an illustration of your own ignorance. And that's pretty embarrasing. It could have easily been Hillary. The main reason she didn't get it was because of her vote on the Iraq war. If she hadn't done that, Obama probably wouldn't have run. You're a conservative and we all know you have your prejudices. Obama gave you a good target to hate.

    I thought as morally and ethically bankrupt as you liberals are, that your willing to sell your integrity for a vote in a heart beat, that you would still possess some measure of pride. But no, it appears youv'e compromised that too.
    You're in no position to tell anybody about morals and ethics. We've seen it in action. It sucks. Conservatives are nothing more than hypocritical justficationists. We passed boredom with you a long time ago. Secessionists. Transvaginal ultrasounds, women can't get pregnant from a rape, and of course God wants that. Evolution is a theory straight from the pits of Hell. You bore us all with your crap.

    Look its not my fault or Bush's you were born to limited to handle the basic cognitive principle of arithmetic...I bet you can "cipher" though...LOL ! Jethro Clampet
    Yeah..,.I loved seeing the examples of Karl Roves math, and Dick Morris math. Nailed it! Had it all figured out didn't ya?? The problem with you guys is you never understood logic. You still don't. You're still playing checkers, and we're playing chess. The "community organizer that you loved to mock, organized the entire country. While you were mocking him, he built something you've never seen before. And now the country has changed right under your collective noses. Since your ideology doesn't permit change...you've got little to look forward to.

    You say it takes years to assess Obama's "implemented" policies ? LOL !!! What a pathetic attempt at mitigation. It's been years, theyv'e failed and miserably.
    Nope. He hasn't. In fact he did so well, he got a second term. He won by 5 Million votes. You lost! Suck it up. Come up with ideas that work and a candidate that isn't a joke and you might get somewhere. I won't hold my breath.

    People need jobs YESTERDAY Jethro. Actually I think the effect of his policies have pretty much panned out.
    Nobody cares what you think Junior. You lost. Get over it, and start figuring out why? And you should start by not blaming everyone else for being stupid. Maybe it's you. Ever think of that??

    As it turns out I could have told you Feb 1st 2008 this is what was going to happen.
    Bet you couldn't have predicted that getting bin Laden would be such a high priority. Or ending the war in Iraq. Or getting health care reform passed, or saving the auto industry. And I bet you couldn't have predicted that he'd beat your ass in a second election, despite all your crap designed to destroy him.

    I can hardly wait to hear your next set of excuses. They get more. and more comical and make less and less sense.
    Excuses aren't necessary when people are simply making stupid claims and crying. I wouldn't my responses to make sense to you. That requires a rational and logical mind. You exhibit neither. You're just another rabid attack dog that's whining because he lost. The black guy won, not once but twice and no amount of money could beat him. America...what a country.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    This begs for a second opinion.
    Feel free. I don't have an ideology to defend. You do. I already know I could be wrong. Can you say that? Or are you infallible? Opinions mean nothing to me. I'm interested in facts. I know that as a conservative you do have an ideology that you need to defend. I don't have one. If the Democrats prove to be less rational than Republicans, I'd vote for them. But they aren't. They cling to their ideology and there's no justifiction for it. It has no basis that is rational, and being rational person matters. At least to me. I don't want irrational jerks running my country. I've seen that and what kind of damage it can do.
    Last edited by Adagio; 02-17-13 at 02:25 AM.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    No. I'm saying that the deficit that you are outraged over ignores the fact that the wars were kept off the books. It was by design, done to show a smaller deficit than actually existed. And Obama has slowed spending more than any recent president. You were willing to vote for Romney who proposed $5 Trillion in massive unfunded tax cuts, and another $2 Trillion in Defense. That's $7 Trillion added to the deficit, you know, the deficit that you hate>



    Two things. 1.The Democrats voted on the intelligence that the White House was providing which turned out to be a lie. Once they realized it they all renounced their own votes. 2. The voted for the war, not creative accounting of it. Our economy collapsed as a result of 1.3 Trillion in tax cuts and another 1.5 two years later. And 9/11, And two unfunded wars, and Wall Street insanity. You might want to remember that we were losing 800,000 jobs a month at the end of Bush transitioning to Obama. That trend was turned around and the recovery began. It took 8 years to wreck the economy. Nobody should have thought it would come roaring back immediately. How many people that have dropped out of the work force have begun their own business rather than try working for somebody else. I did that very thing years ago.



    As opposed to the genius's that voted for Bush??? It's so friggin easy to call the people that beat you in an election morons isn't it? Face it. The country has changed, and like the good little conservative you hate change. Conservatism is defined as the ideology arising out of a distinct but recurring type of historical situation in which a fundamental challenge is directed at established institutions and in which the supporters of those institutions employ the conservative ideology in their defense. Thus, conservatism is that system of ideas employed to justify any established social order, no matter where or when it exists, against any fundamental challenge to its nature or being, no matter from what quarter. Conservatism in this sense is possible in the United States today only if there is a basic challenge to existing American institutions which impels their defenders to articulate conservative values. The Civil Rights movement was a direct challenge to the existing institutions of the time, and conservatism as an ideology is thus a reaction to a system under challenge, a defense of the status – quo in a period of intense ideological and social conflict. Today it's gay's, hispanics, even women. (conservatives even opposed the womens right to vote...so this is nothing new)



    Nahh,.. I don't think so. And you guys are in no position to tell us about what SANE is. Just look at the clown show you put up to run. You actually had people like Trump in the lead, then Bachmann, then Perry for more humor, then the performance artist Herman Cain, Gingrich, the Ayatolla Sanitarium, and finally when all of them proved to be caricatures of the hopeless ideologue, you end up with Romney the Magnificent, whose high wire circus act of somersaults and flip flops were worthy of the Olympic gymnasitcs team. Yeah man...tell about SANE. Go ahead.



    So you hated him even before he got elected? Interesting. Obama doesnt hold ideologies. He leaves that to conservatives. Obama is more of a pragmatist. The fact that you think I or anybody else voted for him because the media told me to is an illustration of your own ignorance. And that's pretty embarrasing. It could have easily been Hillary. The main reason she didn't get it was because of her vote on the Iraq war. If she hadn't done that, Obama probably wouldn't have run. You're a conservative and we all know you have your prejudices. Obama gave you a good target to hate.



    You're in no position to tell anybody about morals and ethics. We've seen it in action. It sucks. Conservatives are nothing more than hypocritical justficationists. We passed boredom with you a long time ago. Secessionists. Transvaginal ultrasounds, women can't get pregnant from a rape, and of course God wants that. Evolution is a theory straight from the pits of Hell. You bore us all with your crap.



    Yeah..,.I loved seeing the examples of Karl Roves math, and Dick Morris math. Nailed it! Had it all figured out didn't ya?? The problem with you guys is you never understood logic. You still don't. You're still playing checkers, and we're playing chess. The "community organizer that you loved to mock, organized the entire country. While you were mocking him, he built something you've never seen before. And now the country has changed right under your collective noses. Since your ideology doesn't permit change...you've got little to look forward to.



    Nope. He hasn't. In fact he did so well, he got a second term. He won by 5 Million votes. You lost! Suck it up. Come up with ideas that work and a candidate that isn't a joke and you might get somewhere. I won't hold my breath.



    Nobody cares what you think Junior. You lost. Get over it, and start figuring out why? And you should start by not blaming everyone else for being stupid. Maybe it's you. Ever think of that??



    Bet you couldn't have predicted that getting bin Laden would be such a high priority. Or ending the war in Iraq. Or getting health care reform passed, or saving the auto industry. And I bet you couldn't have predicted that he'd beat your ass in a second election, despite all your crap designed to destroy him.



    Excuses aren't necessary when people are simply making stupid claims and crying. I wouldn't my responses to make sense to you. That requires a rational and logical mind. You exhibit neither. You're just another rabid attack dog that's whining because he lost. The black guy won, not once but twice and no amount of money could beat him. America...what a country.
    Dontcha just love the ole obtuse defense some on this forum throw up?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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