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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    If Obamas plan worked ( which it cant....hes actively destroying the economy) then why hasnt it worked?.... compared to GWB Obama is a disaster...thats stone cold fact..

    you do know the USA has been downgraded.?...is that fact lost on you?... what comeback do you have?
    Show some sources to prove your statements, the fact is you can not show any credible source not one. Remember chain e-mails are not credible sources

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    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Have you ever started or run your own business? Your entire post is nothing more than flimsy strawmen and rhetoric. You fail to see the Opportunity Costs and Negative Externalities associated with raising the minimum wage.

    Raising the minimum wage increases poverty, it doesn't alleviate it. The association with wages and poverty is slim at best. As I pointed out in a previous post. It has more to do with skill and education. If you raise the minimum wage, it crowds out the lowest skilled and least educated workers. Minimum wage jobs are supposed to be entry level jobs. It is not supposed to be a "living wage". If workers are struggling with minimum wage jobs at the moment, and they are underemployed, that's just more evidence that our Economy sucks because of Obama's failed policies. The absolute worst time to raise the minimum wage is also during a recession, because there is a contraction in jobs available, hence more competition for fewer jobs. Youth and minorities end up becoming crowded out of the Labor Market.

    http://www.clevelandfed.org/research.../1999/0201.pdf

    Have you ever started or run your own business?
    Yes. For 30 years.

    You fail to see the Opportunity Costs and Negative Externalities associated with raising the minimum wage
    You fail to see the benifits in paying a living wage to your employees.

    Raising the minimum wage increases poverty, it doesn't alleviate it
    Demonstrate the truth of that.

    It has more to do with skill and education
    That doesn't demonstrate the truth of what you said.

    It has more to do with skill and education.
    Neither does that. You fail to recognize the most all minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs. People generally are ambitious and look to get ahead. So they dont' plan on making a career out of minimum wage. But that job may very well provide enough money to go and get the education and skills that would enable him/her to get a better job.

    If you raise the minimum wage, it crowds out the lowest skilled and least educated workers.
    No it doesn't. Again demonstrate what makes that true. What do you base that on? We're talking about entry level jobs. What you offer is a sure fire way of keeping people in poverty and never being able to move forward. You've already admitted that it's about education and skills. That takes money. A raise in the minimum wage can help them afford the training and get them off of assistence as well. You would keep them poor and relient on welfare to survive.

    Minimum wage jobs are supposed to be entry level jobs. It is not supposed to be a "living wage".
    That's right. It's an entry level job. But he still has to live, and until a person can get the training to get a better job, this is what he has. A person with no hope of mobility and finds himself stuck in a minimum wage job,and he has no incentive. With a better pay, he can afford to get the training to get a better job. It also means that he will spend his money back into the economy. A person with no money won't. The entire economy suffers as a result of people on minimum wage.

    If workers are struggling with minimum wage jobs at the moment, and they are underemployed, that's just more evidence that our Economy sucks because of Obama's failed policies.
    No. It's not. It's evidence of people like yourself standing in the way of opportunity for people. You can't very well make a case for failed policies until they've actually been implemented and then evaluate the results. He's just started his second term. The jury is still out. You're partisanship is prejudging the effects. How can you say that policies which have been blocked are failed policies. We haven't even tried most of them yet.

    The absolute worst time to raise the minimum wage is also during a recession, because there is a contraction in jobs available, hence more competition for fewer jobs. Youth and minorities end up becoming crowded out of the Labor Market.
    We are no longer in recesssion. We're in recovery. Actually the absolute worst time to cut spending is during a recession. Money needs to be injected into the economy to promote jobs and spending. If nobody is spending, then nobody is buying and if nobody is buying then companies lay people off and the problem is compounded.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Poverty is considered around $14,000. $9 is over $17.

    You're right...but $7.25 results in over $15k which is ALSO above $14k...what's your point?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    You beleive the goverment needs to extract more money from the people who work, so they can spend it on the people who dont?...

    thats a winning formula... not..

    Obviously by your non-response response, you didn't understand a thing I said. Your response had nothing to do with what I said. Like I said, "I see freedom as valuable for it's own sake, not for its economic potential. It's obvious you don't agree." The question is whether we should value freedom because freedom is valuable or because it is profitable—whether we should regard it as an end in itself that is valuable for its own sake, or as a means to economic prosperity that we may dispense with if and when it no longer works to achieve its end. You're an economic reductionst. Why would I expect anything less from you? Just don't tell us that freedom is important to you. It maybe, but that's not the most important thing is it?
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    See what I bolded ? Many of us feel that all of your long-windedness is just partisan BS as well. As "brevity is the soul of wit", it lends further credence to those who feel all you have done is rant. If you can't say it in 3 lines or less most of the time, quit.
    Your inablity to write effectively is noted. Obviously I don't care what you "feel". I didn't come here to make you feel good. I'm here to stick a thumb in your eye. Is that brief enough for you?
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    No. It's not. It's evidence of people like yourself standing in the way of opportunity for people. You can't very well make a case for failed policies until they've actually been implemented and then evaluate the results. He's just started his second term. The jury is still out. You're partisanship is prejudging the effects. How can you say that policies which have been blocked are failed policies. We haven't even tried most of them yet.
    So when the President stated ‘Will further raise the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour by 2011, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers can earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs such as food, transportation, and housing’ during the ’08 campaign and hasn’t got anything done (except reissuing the assertion 50 cents lower) we can’t call that ‘failed’? Blocked? Show me the legislation that was proposed to the DEMOCRATICALLY held congress that blocked such…

    Btw others do describe it as ‘failed’:
    Obama broken promises - increase the minimum wage to 9.50 an hour
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    You missed the part about "brevity". And the wit that comes with it.

    Again, read the words of Jefferson. I know it hurts liberals to comprehend such, but give it a whack.
    Are you claiming to be witty? Is that what you're doing? And Jefferson was quite elaborate in his writing. Take a look at the D of I. Go ahead. give it a whack.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    ?Tell them to their face ? What are you eleven years old Yes, you Libs, which would include Obama and his ilk . demagogue issues and use the blood of innocents to push a very old liberal agenda. Gun control.

    Obviously those in the gallery agree with Obama's nonsensical gun control regulation that would do nothing to stop gun violence by criminals. Also cold is again, using the deaths of 20 innocent children to push a gun agenda. Enough of your false concern.






    LOL !!! Losing what ? The collapse in 2008 was due to liberal democrat HUD and CRA regulations put on lending institutions and the GSEs that caused them to lower their underwriting standards and buy up massive amounts of toxic debt. It's over your head I know but it's the truth.

    Millions of abject morons elected the least qualified candidate in 2008 to come in and address the collapse of the Democrat mandated bubble. He passed a horrible health care law, and gave public sector unions and bankrupt green energy companies billions and lied about shovel ready jobs. So after hearing you and your ilk whine about " Bush the idiot" your solution was to elect an ACTUAL idiot who created a massive structural debt and increased dependency and has a shrinking economy to show for it.

    Nice...




    No, the difference between you and me is you feign concern over dead children and Teachers to push your agenda and you legitimize it by making ridiculous statements like... " blood drenched psycho that runs it "

    I actually DO care about the safety of our citizens and would allow law abiding people to defend themselves and also armed security guards in schools. You see I DONT want more dead children, you and Obama see it as an opportunity. I imagined more than a few high fives going around the white house when the body count came in.

    Classy...



    Your so ignorant of so much, it's what makes you a Liberal. Obama's at 16 trillion and counting with 1 trillion dollar defecits, a rising dependent class, a shrinking economy, with the Fed pumping out billions every month , monetizing our debt and inflating the bond market. 8,500,000 people have disappeared out of the work force. Those jobs are gone.

    Health care is rising, Banks and corporations are holding on to their reserves and capital because only an idiot would invest in Obama's economy. In 2008 the Fed started paying banks interest on their reserves, ( the money THEY HAVE TO HAVE ON HAND BY LAW ) So under Obama's FED nominee has encouraged the banks NOT to lend by paying them interest on they're massive reserves.

    The Fed also controls the amount of reserves banks get to hold. With massive spending 900 billion last quarter and massive capital injections the economy shrank. You have nothing to brag about, your President is destroying the economy.

    The Dow ? That's what you point too ? ... It's ironic that Libs are so desperate in cherry picking out any good economic data they are no cheering the rich getting richer. Do you understand WHY the DOW is at 14,000 ? It's called capital injections by the Fed on a short term basis by spending 85 billion a month on MBS and Treasuries...

    The Fed's Bond buying is going to stop this year, they've done everything they know how to to spur a recovery but alas, really gullible simple people elected Obama twice and our economy will continue to shrink with world wide economic implications. Germany's economy shrank, that's just in. Spain, Italy Greece. These are the poster children of the Liberal movement. And it's nothing but a continuation of mediocrity and misery.

    Don't preach to me about cold heartedness when your "limitations" have been hoisted upon the shoulders of so many American families struggling under Obama's shrinking economy and exploding debt to make ends meet. You voted for hium, your complicit in their prolonged misery as Obama focus's on "gun control"



    Oh you left an impression. Just another morally bereft Liberal who's too egocentric to grasp basic economic principles and who's chosen to act concerned over the deaths of innocent women and children just to push a gun control debate. You don't "care" unless there is blood, I care enough to allow them there right to defend themselves.

    Liberals lie, they're typically selfish and sad and angry little people. You guys quit counting dead soldiers and crying about the war when Obama took over, your ILK lowered the flags for Whitney Houston's drug overdose but when a decorated sniper loses his life trying to help a fellow soldier deal with PTSD your expectantly quiet.

    GROW UP....
    Tell them to their face ? What are you eleven years old
    Yeah...go ahead. Tell these people who's kids won't get to be 11 years old

    Yes, you Libs, which would include Obama and his ilk . demagogue issues and use the blood of innocents to push a very old liberal agenda. Gun control
    Guns over people?? Life doesn't revolve around guns. It's the blood of innocents that needs to be addressed and you prefer guns over their blood. Pretty sick set of values. But then you are a conservaturd aren't you?

    Obviously those in the gallery agree with Obama's nonsensical gun control regulation that would do nothing to stop gun violence by criminals.
    Those in the gallery are the families of victims of gun violence. They might have something to say about it that weighs heavier than anything you might add.

    Also cold is again, using the deaths of 20 innocent children to push a gun agenda. Enough of your false concern.
    False concern??? You think that these people have no right to have their concerns addressed? And you think that those of us that have blood running through our veins are expressing false concern?? Just how cynical can you people get?? Who the hell are you to pass judgment on them or the people that can feel what it's like to lose a child. What do you know of that?

    No, the difference between you and me is you feign concern over dead children and Teachers to push your agenda and you legitimize it by making ridiculous statements like... " blood drenched psycho that runs it "
    You know what? Your a real prime A**hole. You are totally Guns Over People. ESAD Mofo. You have no concern for the killing of these kids? Really??

    I imagined more than a few high fives going around the white house when the body count came in.Classy...
    Right. The President was cheering the body count. Classy huh? There's nothing classy about YOU! You're a real sick fk. You're disgustng ilk allowed 9/11, took us into two wars, crashed the economy, and you have no cred left. It's all spent. You have nothing left but to sit back and bitch. You lost, and you'll continue to lose so take your wormwood like a good little boy, and go play out in the street. We'll point the way if you have trouble.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Do you not understand the minimum wage is what establishes the ‘poverty level’? By changing the minimum wage we will merely move the poverty level and the same ‘class’ of earners will remain under the poverty level…consider the hourly wage for the current poverty level for ONE is $5.52. Considering this is it your assertion that a family should be able to thrive off one minimum wage income?


    I do agree that MW (if we MUST have it) be adjusted to inflation/cpi/whatever but since it is often argued (by ‘lefties’) that there has been no recent inflation surge AND that MW has kept up with inflation since ~1990 (both from increases and monetary policy) it would be no different if linked TODAY (check it out at below links). This would have no effect on the assistance you refer to as MANY who are currently garnering it make above the minimum income now…

    U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - Minimum Wage
    CPI Inflation Calculator

    Do you not understand the minimum wage is what establishes the ‘poverty level’?
    That's a false statement. The poverty line is not established by the minimum wage.

    Minimum wage increasingly lags poverty line

    by Liana Fox

    The recently released 2007 federal poverty guideline highlights the severe and growing inadequacy of the minimum wage. Currently, a full-time minimum wage worker (40 hours/week, 52 weeks/year) would earn $10,712 a year, falling nearly 40% below the $17,170 poverty level for a family of three. Even after factoring in the earned income tax credit, which was designed to bring low-wage workers up to the poverty line, this worker would still fall short of the poverty line.

    By changing the minimum wage we will merely move the poverty level and the same ‘class’ of earners will remain under the poverty level
    Oh Jesus. We don't move the poverty line based on the minimum wage you moron. The minimum wage is below that line right now. Where do you people come from??? The minimum wage is at its lowest real value in over 50 years and has not been raised since 1997. This is the longest stretch of federal inaction since the minimum wage was first instated in 1938. As the basic income required to support a family has grown with inflation,2 the minimum wage has not kept pace with the rising costs of goods. As a result, federal inaction leaves minimum wage workers in an increasingly dire situation. It is widely recognized that the poverty line substantially understates the income needed to support a family. The government's definition of poverty is based on total income received. For example, the poverty level for 2012 was set at $23,050 (total yearly income) for a family of four.[7] Most Americans (58.5%) will spend at least one year below the poverty line at some point between ages 25 and 75.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    So when the President stated ‘Will further raise the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour by 2011, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers can earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs such as food, transportation, and housing’ during the ’08 campaign and hasn’t got anything done (except reissuing the assertion 50 cents lower) we can’t call that ‘failed’? Blocked? Show me the legislation that was proposed to the DEMOCRATICALLY held congress that blocked such…

    Btw others do describe it as ‘failed’:
    Obama broken promises - increase the minimum wage to 9.50 an hour

    No. You could call it postponed.There were a few other things on his agenda, like the economic crises, the auto industry, ending a war and dealing with a hostile congress. There is a time for everything, and not everything got done in the first term. That's why he wanted a second. To finish what he started. Why do you find that unusual?
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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