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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

  1. #671
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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    So you aren't actually interested in reducing the deficit. Your only interest is actually in spending? Why? Spending money is what drives an ecomomy. When money is spent, some kind of good or service is being provided. People spend money to buy that service or product. The more money that is spent, the more demand is placed on the company that provides the goods or service. When that demand is strong enough, the company hires more people to serve the demand for the goods or services. Those people in turn have more money in their pockets and they buy goods or services as well, placing more demand at more companies to hire people to service those demands. If money isn't spent, then goods and services aren't being moved, and people get laid off. When you cut spending, you cut jobs. Why do you want to cut jobs?

    When you cut spending such as cops, teachers, fire fighters, first responders, you're cutting jobs. When these people have no jobs, and you cut programs like Medicaid, food stamps, Pell Grants, Medicare, what are these people suppose to do to live and keep a roof over their head, food on the table, and pay for school for their kids?

    You're an economic reductionist. You believe in economism. Economism is the view that our policy decisions should ultimately be based upon their expected economic consequences. It is the philosophical stance that economic facts, interests, and goals are the facts, interests, and goals that should matter most when it comes to policy decisions. Human lives are secondary in your considerations. In other words, all facts, interests, and goals can ultimately be defined in economic terms—or, in still other words, that economic facts, interests, and goals are the only ones that really exist.

    The difference in our views is striking. What is at issue between them is the relative value of freedom and economic prosperity. It is a matter of priority, or what comes first. The question is whether we should value freedom because freedom is valuable or because it is profitable—whether we should regard it as an end in itself that is valuable for its own sake, or as a means to economic prosperity that we may dispense with if and when it no longer works to achieve its end. I see freedom as valuable for it's own sake, not for its economic potential. It's obvious you don't agree.
    You beleive the goverment needs to extract more money from the people who work, so they can spend it on the people who dont?...

    thats a winning formula... not..

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Budgets are yearly, deficits are yearly, Obama has had four years of trillion dollar deficits. Neither Reagan, GWH Bush or GW Bush forced Obama to spend over a trillion dollars a year more than revenue generated. With people like you supporting this kind of fiscal irresponsibility of Obama's this country will become part of history. You have no concept of debt, fiscal responsibility, debt service, or the U.S. Budget. You show that with every post. Now run away as usual.
    You have no clue on how top do any thing but cut cut cut which does nothing but create the same economic disaster we are dealing with today, your motivated by greed nothing more nothing less for you it is about me me me me and more me, now take your own advice and run off until you really understand how an economy works and what has to be done to fuel our economy.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    You have no clue on how top do any thing but cut cut cut which does nothing but create the same economic disaster we are dealing with today, your motivated by greed nothing more nothing less for you it is about me me me me and more me, now take your own advice and run off until you really understand how an economy works and what has to be done to fuel our economy.
    tell me the last time we had a debt at this level?...and tell me how it worked out...

    your posts are just liberal gruel

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Adagio;1061465704]So you aren't actually interested in reducing the deficit. Your only interest is actually in spending? Why? Spending money is what drives an ecomomy. When money is spent, some kind of good or service is being provided. People spend money to buy that service or product. The more money that is spent, the more demand is placed on the company that provides the goods or service. When that demand is strong enough, the company hires more people to serve the demand for the goods or services. Those people in turn have more money in their pockets and they buy goods or services as well, placing more demand at more companies to hire people to service those demands. If money isn't spent, then goods and services aren't being moved, and people get laid off. When you cut spending, you cut jobs. Why do you want to cut jobs?
    Consumer spending drives the economy as apparently you don't know the components of GDP or what those components generate in percentages. Govt. spending is offset by the debt that spending is creating along with a reduction in personal income withholding takes from the paychecks. Consumer spending creates demand and demand leads to job creation

    Companies are in business to make a profit, not to provide jobs. Jobs however are provided by a growing economy and that grows govt. revenue. Obama has overseen a stagnant economy and one that has 22 million plus unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers who have dropped out of the labor force.


    When you cut spending such as cops, teachers, fire fighters, first responders, you're cutting jobs. When these people have no jobs, and you cut programs like Medicaid, food stamps, Pell Grants, Medicare, what are these people suppose to do to live and keep a roof over their head, food on the table, and pay for school for their kids?
    You must be in a school system that doesn't teach you what funds what services. You easily confuse Federal Responsibility with state responsibility. Let me help you, here is what the Federal Income Taxes fund

    Expenses

    Defense
    International Affairs
    Gen. Science, Space
    Energy
    Natural resources/env
    Agriculture
    Commerce/Housing Cr
    Transportation
    Community Dev
    Education/Train/Social
    Health
    Medicare
    Income Security
    Social Security
    Veterans Benefits
    Justice
    General Govt.
    Net Interest
    It isn't the federal taxpayer's responsibility to fund teachers, cops, firefighters in your community. Why do you think it is? Medicare and SS aren't funded by Federal Income Taxes nor are schools, roads, police, or fire fighters. Please learn what your taxes fund and whose responsibility it is.

    You're an economic reductionist. You believe in economism. Economism is the view that our policy decisions should ultimately be based upon their expected economic consequences. It is the philosophical stance that economic facts, interests, and goals are the facts, interests, and goals that should matter most when it comes to policy decisions. Human lives are secondary in your considerations. In other words, all facts, interests, and goals can ultimately be defined in economic terms—or, in still other words, that economic facts, interests, and goals are the only ones that really exist.
    You live in a world of books ignoring the world of reality. You have no concept of human behavior, personal responsibility, or consequences of poor choices made. What is your experitise on human behavior, individual living expenses, a liveable wage. Human lives rely on personal responsibility and making choices. Some make terrible choices and according to people like you there are no consequences in those poor choices. That is a liberal dream world where someone else pays for your personal mistakes.

    The difference in our views is striking. What is at issue between them is the relative value of freedom and economic prosperity. It is a matter of priority, or what comes first. The question is whether we should value freedom because freedom is valuable or because it is profitable—whether we should regard it as an end in itself that is valuable for its own sake, or as a means to economic prosperity that we may dispense with if and when it no longer works to achieve its end. I see freedom as valuable for it's own sake, not for its economic potential. It's obvious you don't agree.
    Not only the different in our views but the difference in our experience. You live in a liberal dream world that has never solved a social problem. You live in a world where spending in the name of compassion is more important than solving a problem or getting compassionate spending. You know very little about history, very little about personal responsibilty, very little about economics, very little about business and yet you come into a forum like this making typical liberal claims.

    Freedom comes with responsibility, responsibility for choices made and for taking responsibility for ones self. Freedom is indeed valuable as well as profitable. You don't understand either. In your world there are no consequences for failure, in the real world there is. You want the govt. to bail you out of poor choices, I prefer learning from mistakes and moving on never making them again.

    You think a massive central govt. that liberals propose promotes freedom? This Administration is doing more to destroy freedom than any other in history. You buy the rhetoric and ignore the results. That is a prescription for failure.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    You have no clue on how top do any thing but cut cut cut which does nothing but create the same economic disaster we are dealing with today, your motivated by greed nothing more nothing less for you it is about me me me me and more me, now take your own advice and run off until you really understand how an economy works and what has to be done to fuel our economy.
    If Obamas plan worked ( which it cant....hes actively destroying the economy) then why hasnt it worked?.... compared to GWB Obama is a disaster...thats stone cold fact..

    you do know the USA has been downgraded.?...is that fact lost on you?... what comeback do you have?

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Consumer spending drives the economy as apparently you don't know the components of GDP or what those components generate in percentages. Govt. spending is offset by the debt that spending is creating along with a reduction in personal income withholding takes from the paychecks. Consumer spending creates demand and demand leads to job creation

    Companies are in business to make a profit, not to provide jobs. Jobs however are provided by a growing economy and that grows govt. revenue. Obama has overseen a stagnant economy and one that has 22 million plus unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers who have dropped out of the labor force.




    You must be in a school system that doesn't teach you what funds what services. You easily confuse Federal Responsibility with state responsibility. Let me help you, here is what the Federal Income Taxes fund



    It isn't the federal taxpayer's responsibility to fund teachers, cops, firefighters in your community. Why do you think it is? Medicare and SS aren't funded by Federal Income Taxes nor are schools, roads, police, or fire fighters. Please learn what your taxes fund and whose responsibility it is.



    You live in a world of books ignoring the world of reality. You have no concept of human behavior, personal responsibility, or consequences of poor choices made. What is your experitise on human behavior, individual living expenses, a liveable wage. Human lives rely on personal responsibility and making choices. Some make terrible choices and according to people like you there are no consequences in those poor choices. That is a liberal dream world where someone else pays for your personal mistakes.



    Not only the different in our views but the difference in our experience. You live in a liberal dream world that has never solved a social problem. You live in a world where spending in the name of compassion is more important than solving a problem or getting compassionate spending. You know very little about history, very little about personal responsibilty, very little about economics, very little about business and yet you come into a forum like this making typical liberal claims.

    Freedom comes with responsibility, responsibility for choices made and for taking responsibility for ones self. Freedom is indeed valuable as well as profitable. You don't understand either. In your world there are no consequences for failure, in the real world there is. You want the govt. to bail you out of poor choices, I prefer learning from mistakes and moving on never making them again.

    You think a massive central govt. that liberals propose promotes freedom? This Administration is doing more to destroy freedom than any other in history. You buy the rhetoric and ignore the results. That is a prescription for failure.

    Thank You Con for your post as always... you have the patience of a saint...

  7. #677
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Well delivered ? It was absolute nonsense. Blame and irrelevent topics.

    Gun control ? Climate change ?

    Its clear by the poll that 91% of the people they polled were full blown morons.

    With chronic joblessness, 8,500,000 people missing from the work force, massive structural debt put in place by Obama, not Bush, massive Central Bank Injections, massive defecit spending, record rises in dependence, food stamps, disabillity claims, a shrinking economy with increased spending, a ObamaCare law weighing down the private sector, he chose to talk about gun control.

    I hope he gets 9 bucks an hour implemented because he knows what the end result of that stupid policy will be.

    More dependence, more democrats but a hastened collapse.

    Blame and irrelevent topics.
    Who did he blame and when? And you think that Gun control Climate change are irrelevent topics?? Ask the people in Newtown if Gun control is an irrelevent topic. The majority of the public disagrees with you. A CBS poll found that a majority of Americans 54 percent think gun control laws should be tightened, up markedly from a CBS News poll last April that found that only 39 percent backed stricter laws. That makes it relevent. As for climate change, the beauty of science is that its right whether you believe it nor not. Conservatives are always in denial. They deny the Presidents citizenship, they deny climate change, they deny any possibility that they could possibly be wrong about anything. I assume that you agree that you're a fallible human being. That means you could be wrong about things. Is it possible for an infallible human to create an Infallible ideology? The difference between the conservative and the liberal is that the conservative Knows he's right. The Liberal knows he could be wrong. Which one do you think is closer to the truth?

    Its clear by the poll that 91% of the people they polled were full blown morons.
    No. But it is clear that you hate Obama. So you call those that disagree with you names and that makes you feel better, even though it makes you look like a child. 91% of the people approved of it. That means that it wasn't just Democrats. Maybe they know something that you don't. Ever think of that?

    With chronic joblessness, 8,500,000 people missing from the work force, massive structural debt put in place by Obama, not Bush, massive Central Bank Injections, massive defecit spending, record rises in dependence, food stamps, disabillity claims, a shrinking economy with increased spending, a ObamaCare law weighing down the private sector, he chose to talk about gun control.
    No. That was only one of the things he talked about and it came at the end of his speech. He talked about the country in positive terms of where we can go as a country. A positive agenda for moving the country forward, not backward. You offer nothing. Rubio offered nothing, except water. Rand Paul offered nothing other than snarky comments about Kings and dictators.

    I hope he gets 9 bucks an hour implemented because he knows what the end result of that stupid policy will be.
    If he does, 700,000 people at Wal-Mart will be lifted out of poverty and Wal-Mart won't feel it at all. Costco pays their people $11/hour and they keep their people. But then, they know that treating their employees well is good business.

    More dependence, more democrats but a hastened collapse
    More greed from the GunsOverPeople crowd. More rational government from the Dems. BTW the minimum wage was raised during the Clinton admin despite opposition from Repubs. 20Million jobs were created.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

  8. #678
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    ...... If he does (raise minimum wage), 700,000 people at Wal-Mart will be lifted out of poverty and Wal-Mart won't feel it at all. Costco pays their people $11/hour and they keep their people. But then, they know that treating their employees well is good business.
    Check you math. $9 per hour lifts no one out of poverty. It does reduce hours, causes lay-offs of the least qualified, and is as a tax on the lower and middle class who will now pay more for goods and services beyond free-market, and are unable to pass on such costs, etc.

    Maybe put down the Kool-Ade as well.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    That was an individualized response to another post. Not a generic accusation. I think we may have different interpretations of the term. I think I've adequately explained this.
    Apology accepted.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    You have no clue on how top do any thing but cut cut cut which does nothing but create the same economic disaster we are dealing with today, your motivated by greed nothing more nothing less for you it is about me me me me and more me, now take your own advice and run off until you really understand how an economy works and what has to be done to fuel our economy.
    When you learn the components of GDP get back to me. In your world it seems to be the Federal Government's responsibility to provide for everything you want or need. That isn't the foundation upon which this country was built but that fact and reality escapes you.

    I will not be running soon because I love making you look foolish. Components of GDP EarlzP, components!!

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