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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by uhohhotdog View Post
    Of course there will be an increase for the people that will be near the new minimum but it need not double. If the wage is still providing them with a good living there shouldn't be an issue. Are you trying to tell me that in order for people making a middle class wage to be happy, they must make others not happy?
    So the "minimum wage" is not to be designed as an entry-level wage ? It is now supposed to be some concept of a "living wage", or as you say, "a good living" ?

    What kind of liberal fairness stupidity is that ? Minimum wage is for kids living at home, and folks who better find a couple roommates.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
    The only reason for raising the minimum wage is to give a HUGE revenue boost to the federal government.
    I'm still reading through this thread but wanted to comment on the above before continuing.

    So, let me get this straight...Republicans claim they don't want to raise taxes on the rich to generate more federal tax revenue. Instead, they argue that the best way to go about it is through job creation. Thus, more people in full-time employment equals more people paying federal income taxes. Raising the minimum wage rate would not only raise the living standard of the lower middle-class but also take more people out of poverty and possibly have fewer people within that 47% who don't pay federal income taxes. Assuming this is accurate, why would Republicans be opposed to it?

    This, ladies and gentlement, is what Gov. Jindal meant when he said Republicans need to stop being so stupid.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    You don't have to have an American version of Statoil. Some parts of the US - the deep-red Alaska, actually - do rely heavily on the "natural rent". You are surely aware of the Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation, and how it works.

    I'm just saying that the comparisons with the (relatively) successful Nordic "socialisms" are not valid: their societal evolution was very different from ours, and calling some things by the same names does not actually make them the same, or even similar. Denmark is a more capitalist country than America, right now, if you go by the measures that matter most for this one "capitalist".

    P.S. I have spent quite a lot of time in Denmark, working on a number of high-tech small-business projects. Nowhere else, not even in the glorious state of New Hampshire, had I met so many hard-core libertarians. They just don't see their free-marketism as any excuse to distance themselves from their aunties and uncles, siblings and kindergarten firends, etc who may have different political views. It is a country of 5 million. A big family.

    Nowhere in the world - except for my own well-feathered American nest - had I felt as comfortable as in Denmark. These people actually seem to enjoy life - while working hard and keeping their streets immaculate clean - wow!

    But can we just carbon-copy their achievements here? I don't see how.

    Reminds me of the old Soviet joke: "- Why do we have this nightmare version of socialism? Why can't we have the socialism with a human face, like in Sweden?" - " I guess we could, in theory...but there are not enough Swedes in the world to replace all our people..."
    The point I was referring to was it was said that Norway is different because they have oil. My point is that we have oil too, but it's owned by private companies that sell it off overseas at inflated prices subsidized by our government through tax breaks. We do the complete opposite of Norway when it comes to oil.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by uhohhotdog View Post
    ........ If the market established wages, many people would be working for even less than what minimum wage is now. You can't live off of current wages yet you think people should make even less? That's just sickening. Truly truly sickening.
    What is sickening is that liberals think everyone deserves instant living wages regardless of their aptitude and work ethic. If you legislate such ignorant expectations, the net result is more jobs priced-out of the American market, higher unemployment, and an ever thankful Chinese.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by uhohhotdog View Post
    Of course there will be an increase for the people that will be near the new minimum but it need not double. If the wage is still providing them with a good living there shouldn't be an issue. Are you trying to tell me that in order for people making a middle class wage to be happy, they must make others not happy?
    Wages are not about making people happy, that would be allowances like mommy gives you. Wages are about paying employees what their production is worth, based mainly on their replacement costs. If you advertise a job at $8/hour and no qualified applicants show up then you are paying too low of a wage. If you advertise that same job at $10/hour and ten qualified applicants show up then you are paying a "fair market" wage. If you advertise that same job at $15/hour and 100 qualified applicants show up then you are offering too darned much. Try using an inflation caluculator and you will see that minumum wage has stayed about the same for 50 years, relative to inflation. Most employers will pay over the minumum wage very soon after discovering a "good" employee, with the hope of retaining that person and training them further. Those "workers" that can not keep a job or advance beyond that minimum wage are simply not worth more, pretending otherwise is foolish. There is no reason to pay an entry level McJob worker more than minimum wage, when a much harder job, like construction labor, gets only 1.5x that amount.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    So the "minimum wage" is not to be designed as an entry-level wage ? It is now supposed to be some concept of a "living wage", or as you say, "a good living" ?

    What kind of liberal fairness stupidity is that ? Minimum wage is for kids living at home, and folks who better find a couple roommates.
    The majority of people that make minimum wage are over 20. It may have been intended for kids but it's not how it works in real life.

    Now I'd be prepared to create a training wage that would be used for kids/young adults that have zero work experience that would end at 1 year experience.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm still reading through this thread but wanted to comment on the above before continuing.

    So, let me get this straight...Republicans claim they don't want to raise taxes on the rich to generate more federal tax revenue. Instead, they argue that the best way to go about it is through job creation. Thus, more people in full-time employment equals more people paying federal income taxes. Raising the minimum wage rate would not only raise the living standard of the lower middle-class but also take more people out of poverty and possibly have fewer people within that 47% who don't pay federal income taxes. Assuming this is accurate, why would Republicans be opposed to it?

    This, ladies and gentlement, is what Gov. Jindal meant when he said Republicans need to stop being so stupid.
    The only stupidity that appears to be on display is yours....

    So let me get THIS straight......

    You completely fail to understand my statement, then go blindly on misrepresenting what I said, SOMEHOW find a reference to Republicans that doesn't exist, and wind up your display of overt ignorance by calling someone ELSE stupid.........

    Do your folks know you're playing on their computer, little girl?

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm still reading through this thread but wanted to comment on the above before continuing.

    So, let me get this straight...Republicans claim they don't want to raise taxes on the rich to generate more federal tax revenue. Instead, they argue that the best way to go about it is through job creation. Thus, more people in full-time employment equals more people paying federal income taxes. Raising the minimum wage rate would not only raise the living standard of the lower middle-class but also take more people out of poverty and possibly have fewer people within that 47% who don't pay federal income taxes. Assuming this is accurate, why would Republicans be opposed to it?

    This, ladies and gentlement, is what Gov. Jindal meant when he said Republicans need to stop being so stupid.
    Nonsense. When you continually mandate wage above its level of earned productivity, you make it non-competitive for the employer, and you benefit those elsewhere with lower labor costs. That is not an opinion, it is a dynamic fact.

    The stupid is with the low-information Obamabots and liberals, who are blind to tomorrow.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Wages are not about making people happy, that would be allowances like mommy gives you. Wages are about paying employees what their production is worth, based mainly on their replacement costs. If you advertise a job at $8/hour and no qualified applicants show up then you are paying too low of a wage. If you advertise that same job at $10/hour and ten qualified applicants show up then you are paying a "fair market" wage. If you advertise that same job at $15/hour and 100 qualified applicants show up then you are offering too darned much. Try using an inflation caluculator and you will see that minumum wage has stayed about the same for 50 years, relative to inflation. Most employers will pay over the minumum wage very soon after discovering a "good" employee, with the hope of retaining that person and training them further. Those "workers" that can not keep a job or advance beyond that minimum wage are simply not worth more, pretending otherwise is foolish. There is no reason to pay an entry level McJob worker more than minimum wage, when a much harder job, like construction labor, gets only 1.5x that amount.
    So many wrong things here. First of all minimum wage has NOT kept up. If it had, it would be over $10 right now. Second, you're trying to tell me that someone's full time work is worth so little that they can not possibly support theirself on it? You think so little of people that they're not worth making a living? You continue to sicken me.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by uhohhotdog View Post
    The point I was referring to was it was said that Norway is different because they have oil. My point is that we have oil too, but it's owned by private companies that sell it off overseas at inflated prices subsidized by our government through tax breaks. We do the complete opposite of Norway when it comes to oil.
    In this case, you "point" is entirely wrong. Our "private companies" not "sell it off" overseas at all - the local market is hungry enough. While Norway sells virtually everything - they have abundant hydroelectric energy to satisfy their own needs.

    I agree, though, that all and any tax breaks and subsidies have to go. They distort the market.
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 02-13-13 at 11:44 PM.

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