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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    He'll probably say, "inherit lots of money, it works for us. It's the GOP plan."
    80% of all millionaires are first generation. Most wealthy families leave large chunks of their estate to charity. Try to keep up.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by uhohhotdog View Post
    Do you understand that many people out of work REFUSE minimum wage jobs because those jobs don't pay well enough to live on? Do you realize that the states that pay more than the federal minimum wage pay very little more and don't solve the problem? I never said 9 dollars. Livable wage is about 16/hr. That's what it should be. I don't know what your questions are trying to prove. If anything answering those questions only helps my argument. So maybe you should make your point more clear so I can actually respond to it.


    And to make my point clear about minimum wage is that minimum wage should offer a full time worker a wage that allows them to support theirself while still having an incentive to move up to do greater things. That's why it should be 16 and not a billion or whatever ridiculous number someone counters with.
    Are you kidding me? More than doubling only the bottom wage is never going to happen. Those that now make double the minimum wage would never be content to say that is fair that they then make minimum wage too. Get real!
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Is your assertion that wage increases will keep up with food costs based on a presumption that those who are currently earning minimum wage, and thus recognize the increase, are the predominate consumers of restaurants? Does this sound logical?

    Further consider that eating out is commonly a discretionary expense that often is eliminated once the cost gets prohibitive…
    No...

    I'm saying that in order to meet the required labor costs food prices will have to rise but the amount required will be much less than the difference in wages. Doubling minimum wage does not require a doubling of food cost.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Do you ever say anything that is actually true? Reagan created 16.10 million jobs by putting it all on a credit card. Not quite 20 million. Clinton created 22.74 million jobs without creating such debt.
    And Obama is breaking even while putting it on a credit card.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Which president had the biggest deficits ever when he left office. Hint, he dyed his hair a lot and thought trees polluted.
    That's only because Obama hasn't left office yet.
    He's well on his way to breaking the record, while you cheer him on from the sidelines.

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    Re: SOTU Address:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    I agree with you on that one. It is reprehesible the way we are letting them ruin their environment and the world as a whole so we can import cheap **** from them. It is morally wrong. What do the Reps plan to do about it. Forcing them to clean it up?
    Question is what are Democrats doing about it? Nothing, and they claim to love the environment more than anyone else. Don't look at Republicans, everyone knows they love drinking dirty water and breathing dirty air.

    BTW, I don't respect you, because you sit there in the middle playing both sides against each other, and doing nothing yourself.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you kidding me? More than doubling only the bottom wage is never going to happen. Those that now make double the minimum wage would never be content to say that is fair that they then make minimum wage too. Get real!
    Of course there will be an increase for the people that will be near the new minimum but it need not double. If the wage is still providing them with a good living there shouldn't be an issue. Are you trying to tell me that in order for people making a middle class wage to be happy, they must make others not happy?

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by uhohhotdog View Post
    No...

    I'm saying that in order to meet the required labor costs food prices will have to rise but the amount required will be much less than the difference in wages. Doubling minimum wage does not require a doubling of food cost.
    That is quite correct. Considering your previous $16 assertion...restaurant labor generally runs 25-30% of revenue. Assuming a Big Mac cost $4.00 and hourly rates of $8.00 an increase to $16 would result in $1.00 increase price a 20% increase. At what point does a consumer say 'that's just too much for crap food'? And thusly the revenue goes down resulting in an overstaffed restaurant and subsequent work force reductions...does that sound acceptable? Or even McD's comes up with a 'burger machine' to eliminate these labor expenses all together...does that sound better? At some point there is a realization that less workers is cheaper. Is that what you seek? In the end the consumer doesn't care they just want their burger (in my analogy)...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by uhohhotdog View Post
    If the US had it's own national oil company, we'd have a lot more money too. That's not very "free market".
    You don't have to have an American version of Statoil. Some parts of the US - the deep-red Alaska, actually - do rely heavily on the "natural rent". You are surely aware of the Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation, and how it works.

    I'm just saying that the comparisons with the (relatively) successful Nordic "socialisms" are not valid: their societal evolution was very different from ours, and calling some things by the same names does not actually make them the same, or even similar. Denmark is a more capitalist country than America, right now, if you go by the measures that matter most for this one "capitalist".

    P.S. I have spent quite a lot of time in Denmark, working on a number of high-tech small-business projects. Nowhere else, not even in the glorious state of New Hampshire, had I met so many hard-core libertarians. They just don't see their free-marketism as any excuse to distance themselves from their aunties and uncles, siblings and kindergarten firends, etc who may have different political views. It is a country of 5 million. A big family.

    Nowhere in the world - except for my own well-feathered American nest - had I felt as comfortable as in Denmark. These people actually seem to enjoy life - while working hard and keeping their streets immaculate clean - wow!

    But can we just carbon-copy their achievements here? I don't see how.

    Reminds me of the old Soviet joke: "- Why do we have this nightmare version of socialism? Why can't we have the socialism with a human face, like in Sweden?" - " I guess we could, in theory...but there are not enough Swedes in the world to replace all our people..."

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What makes you an expert on why someone else doesn't take a job? That is your opinion and should be stated as an opinion. Further you believe it should be 16 per hour, why? why not 20 per hour or 30 per hour? You are such an expert so start your own business and pay those wages.

    My point is that the market should establish wages and the govt. has no business telling private industry what to pay its workers. Govt. has nothing invested in the business and just sucks out a share in taxes without any of the risk. Obama fits well into that liberal ideology knowing nothing about how to run a business
    Because I know many of those people. I've had people come into where I work during an interview where I gave them a tour and when they asked about the pay they were immediately turned off never to be heard from again. I know people who made more on unemployment than a minimum wage job would pay. Now I know you think, well thats reckless government spending. What I think is that it's deplorable that real jobs pay so little.

    If the market established wages, many people would be working for even less than what minimum wage is now. You can't live off of current wages yet you think people should make even less? That's just sickening. Truly truly sickening.

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