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SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

Re: SOTU Address:

Nonsense. When you continually mandate wage above its level of earned productivity, you make it non-competitive for the employer, and you benefit those elsewhere with lower labor costs. That is not an opinion, it is a dynamic fact.

The stupid is with the low-information Obamabots and liberals, who are blind to tomorrow.

When you artificially keep wages flat despite the rise in inflation, you force more people into poverty thereby forcing more people to live off the very entitlement programs you rally against.

You can't have it both ways. You either pay people a living wage or you tax those who can afford to pay more to pay for those social program the poor will flock towards in order to survive. Pick your poison...

Higher salaries so that the employee can be self-sustaining or higher taxes that go towards more government spending. You choose.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

Instead of attempting to hurl insults, why not expand on your comment. If you meant it as a blanket truism - that raising the mimimum wage WOULD generate more tax revenue by having MORE employees paying federal income taxes, then we agree. But if yours was an attempt at sarcasm, a hidden segway if you will as if to say, "the only reason the President suggested raising the minimum wage rate was so the fed could generate more tax revenue so they could then spend it," you'd basically be playing both ends against each other. Think it through...

If Republicans had their way they wouldn't raise taxes on anybody for any reason - PERIOD! Yet their leadership has constantly said that the best way to raise revenue is by having more people employeed who would then pay into the federal tax system. Thus, I ask again, why would Republicans be opposed to this measure? You're fighting against your own anti-tax (increase) idealogy.


I'm not the one who started a conversation by calling the person I responded to stupid....

But I've got A LOT of experience posting on sites like this, and there's a CONVERTED effort to insult Conservatives, in the hope of silencing them and their opinions.

I treat people the way I'm treated, and answer insult with insult.

If you WANT respect, SHOW respect.

"The argument from intimidation is the admission of intellectual impotence."- Ayn Rand
 

The foolishness of your earlier post was to describe minimum wage as "intended for kids". Your link does nothing to dispel that nonsense. And the link is 17 years old.

Minimum wage is not a living wage, and was never intended as such. It is completely foolish, and liberal, to adopt that free-loading interpretation. If you are over 20, earning minimum wage, and don't want to live with Mom and Dad, then you better find some roommates.

What is so difficult for liberals to comprehend ? Is it the siren-call of free-stuff ?
 
uhohhotdog;1061463549]Because I know many of those people. I've had people come into where I work during an interview where I gave them a tour and when they asked about the pay they were immediately turned off never to be heard from again. I know people who made more on unemployment than a minimum wage job would pay. Now I know you think, well thats reckless government spending. What I think is that it's deplorable that real jobs pay so little.

I spent 35 years in the business world, employed over 1200 people, never paid minimum wage because the market wouldn't allow it but had to compete in the market place with other retail competitors. Competition seems like a foreign concept to you.

As for people being turned off by the salary sounds to me like you didn't do a very good job giving them other reasons to take the job. Anyone that simply works for the wage is a short term thinker and someone who isn't going to provide a lot of value long term. I wonder why it is that you don't start your own business so you can correct the ills that you perceive about real business. Further I am still waiting for you to tell me how many people make minimum wage, who they are, and how long they actually make minimum wage? You generalize a lot and act like an expert but you really don't have any idea what you are talking about.

If the market established wages, many people would be working for even less than what minimum wage is now. You can't live off of current wages yet you think people should make even less? That's just sickening. Truly truly sickening.

Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. What is truly sickening is someone with no investment, no risk taking, no responsibility for payroll, taxes, benefit expenses deciding what someone should be paid. I hope I am around when you realize how much of a fool liberalism has made out of you.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

Does the President set gas prices? Does speculation increase gas prices? Do you have a solution that will bring gas prices down?


No, the President sets energy policy.

And that policy will increase, or lower, gas prices.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

When you artificially keep wages flat despite the rise in inflation, you force more people into poverty thereby forcing more people to live off the very entitlement programs you rally against.

You can't have it both ways. You either pay people a living wage or you tax those who can afford to pay more to pay for those social program the poor will flock towards in order to survive. Pick your poison...

Higher salaries so that the employee can be self-sustaining or higher taxes that go towards more government spending. You choose.

What are you talking about? Minimum wage is supposed to be "flat" relative to inflation, and is. Other than SS/Medicare taxation a minmum wage worker pays NO federal income taxes.

Federal Minimum Wage Rates, 1955
 
I'm calling this claim BS.

There are MILLIONS of kids working every summer, cutting lawns and trimming hedges, who are paid "off the books" so to speak, often for LESS than minimum wage.

I started at about 12 myself.

They're washing cars, and shoveling snow, too....

There's NO way to get an actual realistic figure on your claim.

What country do you live in? Kids mowing lawns? Shoveling snow? Washing cars? Show a source for your statement if you can
 
Re: SOTU Address:

Does the President set gas prices? Does speculation increase gas prices? Do you have a solution that will bring gas prices down?

How much tax do you pay on a gallon of gasoline? Any idea? You don't think the President energy policies affect gasoline prices or taxes don't affect gasoline prices? What risk does the govt. have to develop that gallon of gasoline?
 
Re: SOTU Address:

When you artificially keep wages flat despite the rise in inflation, you force more people into poverty thereby forcing more people to live off the very entitlement programs you rally against.

You can't have it both ways. You either pay people a living wage or you tax those who can afford to pay more to pay for those social program the poor will flock towards in order to survive. Pick your poison...

Higher salaries so that the employee can be self-sustaining or higher taxes that go towards more government spending. You choose.

Bull**** ! The choice should not be "living wage" or various government teat programs. That is a downward spiral of unaccountability and debt and ruin ! One must simply live within their means. A "living wage" should be calculated such that there are 3 or more minimum wage occupants in a 3 room apartment, eating ramen noodles for dinner. They are alive ! And the best teacher ever known, "hardship", is most wise !

Your concept of options was poorly thought out. And so liberal.
 
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I spent 35 years in the business world, employed over 1200 people, never paid minimum wage because the market wouldn't allow it but had to compete in the market place with other retail competitors. Competition seems like a foreign concept to you.

As for people being turned off by the salary sounds to me like you didn't do a very good job giving them other reasons to take the job. Anyone that simply works for the wage is a short term thinker and someone who isn't going to provide a lot of value long term. I wonder why it is that you don't start your own business so you can correct the ills that you perceive about real business. Further I am still waiting for you to tell me how many people make minimum wage, who they are, and how long they actually make minimum wage? You generalize a lot and act like an expert but you really don't have any idea what you are talking about.



Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. What is truly sickening is someone with no investment, no risk taking, no responsibility for payroll, taxes, benefit expenses deciding what someone should be paid. I hope I am around when you realize how much of a fool liberalism has made out of you.


Hear, HEAR!

Well said.

I once had about 26 people working for me in North Carolina, making minimum wage or slightly more....

Older women wanting to get out of the house, young kids going to school who liked the flexibility of the hours, older guys on pensions, temps who were between jobs.

I created a work environment that actually had some of my employees tearing up when they left, because they were happy there, and didn't want to leave, but usually did if a better opportunity presented itself.

Some actually came back if it didn't work out, or I allowed them to work part time if I could.

And I always gave an excellent reference.

It's not always about the money.
 
Yes, minimum wage is not designed to support "independent living".
why should the minimum wage not be a living wage?
Minimum wage in 1970 was $1.25/hour, if I remember correctly, and adjusted for infltion that is now about $7.40/hour.
i recall it as $1.60; substantially higher than the $0.35 when i lived as a teen in japan - but it did not go as far
minimum wage graph.jpg
When I worked at that wage I needed a roommate to get a small appartment and afford a barely running used car. After four and a half years I had a much better job and an AA degree in Comptuer Data Processing from a local community college. I worked full time and took classes part-time, still lived with roommates and bought a small 3/bedroom 1/bath house - renting out two rooms.

CPI Inflation Calculator
minimum wage rate adjusted.jpg
appears Obama is trying to return the minimum wage to an effective rate similar to what you and i "enjoyed" in our youth; still less than a living wage
 
Re: SOTU Address:

........

If Republicans had their way they wouldn't raise taxes on anybody for any reason - PERIOD! Yet their leadership has constantly said that the best way to raise revenue is by having more people employeed who would then pay into the federal tax system. Thus, I ask again, why would Republicans be opposed to this measure? You're fighting against your own anti-tax (increase) idealogy.

I think you are wrong about that. The President keeps cutting the legs out from under the Speaker of the House. Every time he does that with his refusal to give up anything and run out in front of the press corps to gloat at every possible opportunity, he gives people like Eric Cantor more and more power. Boehner is someone the POTUS could work with if the POTUS could actually lead the democrats in the Senate, which he cannot.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

How much tax do you pay on a gallon of gasoline? Any idea? You don't think the President energy policies affect gasoline prices or taxes don't affect gasoline prices? What risk does the govt. have to develop that gallon of gasoline?


The government makes FAR more on every gallon of gas than the oil company....
 
Yes, minimum wage is not designed to support "independent living". Minimum wage in 1970 was $1.25/hour, if I remember correctly, and adjusted for infltion that is now about $7.40/hour. When I worked at that wage I needed a roommate to get a small appartment and afford a barely running used car. After four and a half years I had a much better job and an AA degree in Comptuer Data Processing from a local community college. I worked full time and took classes part-time, still lived with roommates and bought a small 3/bedroom 1/bath house - renting out two rooms.

CPI Inflation Calculator

Minimum wage was $1.60 in 1970

U.S. Minimum Wage History


According to your calculator that's $9.47.


Here's a history of minimum wage in Constant dollars

Federal Minimum Wage Rates, 1955
 
Is there some rule in liberal education that has outlawed the study of economics?
 
Re: SOTU Address:

The government makes FAR more on every gallon of gas than the oil company....

No question about it but you will never convince a liberal of that even showing them the P&L's. Liberals never admit when they are wrong
 
Re: SOTU Address:

When you artificially keep wages flat despite the rise in inflation, you force more people into poverty thereby forcing more people to live off the very entitlement programs you rally against…
I keep reading, both here (liberals/progressives claims in the economics thread) and other sources; there has been little/no inflation of late, which conservatives/libertarians disagree with. And considering using the inflation calculators the current minimum wage is above that calculated from 1990-current…what am I missing?

You can't have it both ways.
Indeed…apparently.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

I'm not the one who started a conversation by calling the person I responded to stupid....

But I've got A LOT of experience posting on sites like this, and there's a CONVERTED effort to insult Conservatives, in the hope of silencing them and their opinions.

I treat people the way I'm treated, and answer insult with insult.

If you WANT respect, SHOW respect.

"The argument from intimidation is the admission of intellectual impotence."- Ayn Rand
There's no effort on my part to insult Conservatives. You guys do that all by yourselves. Your very comment in protecting the earnings of business owners while overlooking the plight of the working poor is evidence enough of how off-base and out of touch many of you on the Right truly are. Your every defense against raising taxes is all about how to get people from unemployment to employment. But you never discuss "how" to prepare the workforce of the future nor what to do to ease the economic burden on those who are struggling financially until they are able to find full, meaningful employment. In the minds of most Republicans, those who are unemployed are truly on their own.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

Bull**** ! The choice should not be "living wage" or various government teat programs. That is a downward spiral of unaccountability and debt and ruin ! One must simply live within their means. A "living wage" should be calculated such that there are 3 or more minimum wage occupants in a 3 room apartment, eating ramen noodles for dinner. They are alive ! And the best teacher ever known, "hardship", is most wise !

Your concept of options was poorly thought out. And so liberal.

Liberals are SO stupid....

The media convinced women to enter the workplace by calling jobs "careers."

Once they got out there, they raised the price of everything so high, it often took two people working to support a family....
 
WRONG. Using your own 2nd link, in constant 1996 dollars the 1970 minimum wage was $4.96 and in 2012 was $4.97. Think before you drink, even Koolaid.

Dude. You're looking at 2 different values there. In 1968 it was 7.21 in 1996 dollars. Learn to read.
 
Obama has done plenty of damage all on his own. His first two years were with a Democrat Congress.
He passed the most destructive legislation in US history. ObamaCare.

Blaming Republicans for his foolishness is desperate and lame. When are you guys going to take responsibillity ?

Liberalism ? Succesful ? In what universe?

In Greece, France, Spain ? I mean its exceedingly apparent as the US turns down the moron road that massive structural debt, high unemoyment, a growing dependent class is not exactly "successful".

His first two years were with a Democrat Congress. He passed the most destructive legislation in US history. ObamaCare.

Your opinion of it doesn't make it true. Conservatives have spent a good chunk of this year trying to convince the public that Obamacare is the spawn of Satan and needs to be repealed in its entirety. For all their efforts, though, they seem to be convincing no one. Indeed, if anything, support for repeal is dropping. This is the finding in the new Kaiser Health Tracking poll, conducted just after the election. In that poll, 49 percent of respondents wanted to either expand the Affordable Care Act (27 percent) or keep it as is (22 percent). Just 33 percent wanted to either repeal it and replace with a Republican alternative (14 percent) or repeal it without a replacement (19 percent). It appears you're in the minority "opinion" on this.

Blaming Republicans for his foolishness is desperate and lame. When are you guys going to take responsibillity ?

When are you going to stop spouting this nonsense? Listen to Rubio's response. It's one attack after another blaming Obama for everything. This is your response to what I posted?? :lamo. What do you say to the immediate effort by the Repubs after his first inauguration? Quiet on that aren't you? :doh When are you going to take responsibility for the 8 years that got us into this mess?

Liberalism ? Succesful ? In what universe?

Try this one. The United States was a liberal idea to begin with. It's lasted over 200 years.

In Greece, France, Spain ? I mean its exceedingly apparent as the US turns down the moron road that massive structural debt, high unemoyment, a growing dependent class is not exactly "successful".

Our economy is way ahead of theirs. Are you advocating austerity? Look at Greece and see how successful that is going.

Last night Rubio came out with exactly the same garbage that Romney offered and the country rejected. Same story. Different face.
 
Re: SOTU Address:

What are you talking about? Minimum wage is supposed to be "flat" relative to inflation, and is. Other than SS/Medicare taxation a minmum wage worker pays NO federal income taxes.

Federal Minimum Wage Rates, 1955

Hence, the reason the President suggested linking the minimum wage rate to the cost of living index in an effort to keep people who make minimum wage from slipping back into poverty.
 
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