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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    hatred [ˈheɪtrɪd]

    a feeling of intense dislike; enmity

    You show that Every time you post.Do you not recognize it yourself?
    Right, posting verifiable facts is certainly hatred for a liberal.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right, posting verifiable facts is certainly hatred for a liberal.

    Now you’re scrambling. Typical conservative tactic.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The big lie is what taxes are supposed to fund and what they fund. When you say total Federal Taxes you ignore what income taxes fund, excise, payroll, and corporate taxes and then again you ignore state liability as well as state responsibilities. That way liberals believe they win an argument when you fact in FICA taxes that fund SS and Medicare knowing darn well that FICA is capped making the percentage look worse for the rich.

    Here is what your Federal Income Taxes fund and what the rich are paying most of and 47-49% aren't paying any. That seem fair to a liberal



    So stop buying the liberal rhetoric and get the facts. Tell me that all income earning Americans shouldn't be paying something to these expense items?
    This laughable.

    Are you, as a conservative, really going to start arguing that by calling a tax (you DO know what a tax is, right?) some name and saying it funds something, that it is somehow different and better than other taxes?

    By the way, payroll taxes have been paying for ALL of these things for decades as the surplus payroll taxes go right into the general fund to be spent.

    A tax is not voluntary, it is legally required to be paid under penalty of law. If I were to say a tax is called the "defense tax" and blue eyed people pay, and another tax is called the "socialism tax" and green eyed people pay it, it would be the height of idiocy to say that green eyed people don't pay for defense. They pay what they are required to pay by law and what it funds is not up to them, and ultimately, it all goes to the same place, the federal government, to be spent as the government decides to spend it.

    I don't think there should be a payroll tax, just have an income tax where the absolute minimum is 7.62% and go from there.

    At the very least it would negate the sophistry of arguments like your that pretends that what a tax pays for is relevant in any way. The only way it would be relevant in any way is if the tax were voluntary.

    This line of reasoning is simply specious.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    Now you’re scrambling. Typical conservative tactic.
    You gave me the definition of hatred but no specific examples which is what you and others do when you want to change the subject. Obama's results are a total and complete failure as evidenced by the non partisan data. That isn't hatred for Obama, that is the reality of his results.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptinSarcastic View Post
    This laughable.

    Are you, as a conservative, really going to start arguing that by calling a tax (you DO know what a tax is, right?) some name and saying it funds something, that it is somehow different and better than other taxes?

    By the way, payroll taxes have been paying for ALL of these things for decades as the surplus payroll taxes go right into the general fund to be spent.

    A tax is not voluntary, it is legally required to be paid under penalty of law. If I were to say a tax is called the "defense tax" and blue eyed people pay, and another tax is called the "socialism tax" and green eyed people pay it, it would be the height of idiocy to say that green eyed people don't pay for defense. They pay what they are required to pay by law and what it funds is not up to them, and ultimately, it all goes to the same place, the federal government, to be spent as the government decides to spend it.

    I don't think there should be a payroll tax, just have an income tax where the absolute minimum is 7.62% and go from there.

    At the very least it would negate the sophistry of arguments like your that pretends that what a tax pays for is relevant in any way. The only way it would be relevant in any way is if the tax were voluntary.

    This line of reasoning is simply specious.
    I gave you the list of line items in the budget, which apparently you ignored just like you ignored the purpose of the various taxes. Payroll taxes were put on budget by LBJ to fund the Vietnam War and now liberals like you ignore the purpose of those taxes because you have been brainwashed into believing all taxes fund whatever you want them to fund.

    What you show is typical big govt. liberal rhetoric which apparently you believe in that cradle to grave coverage ignoring state and local taxes as well as state and local responsibility. What is the fair share that those evil rich people should pay as a percentage of their income in Federal Income Taxes, FICA, Excise taxes, state and local taxes? What exactly is the federal responsibility and state responsibility in your world?

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You gave me the definition of hatred but no specific examples which is what you and others do when you want to change the subject. Obama's results are a total and complete failure as evidenced by the non partisan data. That isn't hatred for Obama, that is the reality of his results.
    every time you post you showcase your hatred(a feeling of intense dislike; enmity ) for OUR COUNTRIES twice elected President.Its kinda sad really.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    every time you post you showcase your hatred(a feeling of intense dislike; enmity ) for OUR COUNTRIES twice elected President.Its kinda sad really.
    What is rather sad is the fact that you accept the very poor economic numbers generated by the policies of this President and never hold him responsible for the commitments made, commitments like "halving the deficit" by the end of his first term. It is further sad that rhetoric trumps actual results in your world as you want badly to believe what you are told but the truth is what you are told and what is happening makes you look like a fool.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I gave you the list of line items in the budget, which apparently you ignored just like you ignored the purpose of the various taxes. Payroll taxes were put on budget by LBJ to fund the Vietnam War and now liberals like you ignore the purpose of those taxes because you have been brainwashed into believing all taxes fund whatever you want them to fund.

    What you show is typical big govt. liberal rhetoric which apparently you believe in that cradle to grave coverage ignoring state and local taxes as well as state and local responsibility. What is the fair share that those evil rich people should pay as a percentage of their income in Federal Income Taxes, FICA, Excise taxes, state and local taxes? What exactly is the federal responsibility and state responsibility in your world?
    Quite the opposite, what I show is that taxes are taxes. I can't say what I would I would supported at the time, but if you know my positions at all, you would know that I think SS is a horrible inter-generational wealth transfer that could never stand up to changing demographics. I support a needs based SS program in combination with private accounts. But I don't get a choice, I just pay a tax because I have to. I also happen to pay both sides of the payroll tax equation, though I believe that ultimately so does everyone, they just don't get to see it as clearly part of their compensation as self-employed people do. But my point is, I don't get a choice, it is a tax, it doesn't matter what it funds.

    In my world, local, state and the federal government are responsible for promoting the general welfare of the citizens. Beyond that, it is dependent on the democratic decisions of the voters and their representatives. I would do things quite differently than the policies in place now, but in many cases, it would be LESS government, and in some cases, it would be more.

    I'm not a liberal, I am a pragmatist, it just so happens that in in slightly more cases than not, the liberals have the right ideas, but where they don't, I support conservative policies. Basically I think making policy decisions from a purely ideological point of view guarantees only that you will be very wrong about the half the time.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    CaptinSarcastic;1061513777]Quite the opposite, what I show is that taxes are taxes. I can't say what I would I would supported at the time, but if you know my positions at all, you would know that I think SS is a horrible inter-generational wealth transfer that could never stand up to changing demographics. I support a needs based SS program in combination with private accounts. But I don't get a choice, I just pay a tax because I have to. I also happen to pay both sides of the payroll tax equation, though I believe that ultimately so does everyone, they just don't get to see it as clearly part of their compensation as self-employed people do. But my point is, I don't get a choice, it is a tax, it doesn't matter what it funds.
    Of course that is what you show because you have been brainwashed into believing that the govt. deserves all the money regardless of the item the tax was supposed to fund. Taxes aren't just taxes as they were set up for a purpose. I gave you the line items the Federal Income taxes were to fund, and then SS and Medicare were to be funded by FICA. SS and Medicare are obligations and promises made to the people forced to contribute, if that money is used which it has been where do the funds come from to pay those people or do you even care?

    You pay into SS because you have to and when you retire you expect an income. There are no such obligations for the other budget items as you simply cut them if you don't have the money to spend just like you do in your personal financial statement.

    I am still waiting for you to tell me the percentage of income that a rich person should be allowed to keep and what is their fair share in Federal, State, and Local Taxes?

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    every time you post you showcase your hatred(a feeling of intense dislike; enmity ) for OUR COUNTRIES twice elected President.Its kinda sad really.
    Yes, yes. And how did you feel from 2000 to 2008?

    The dislike may have a great deal to do with policy.

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