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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

  1. #1361
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    great post
    remaining ignorant and being proud of it is much better than actually learning something [/s]
    Oh so you think Adagio is a 'teacher' of some sort? Are you the newest leftist member of his fan club? When will the t-shirts be out?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptinSarcastic View Post
    Right, when someone says that, know that income tax is about half of all federal taxes, and the rest of the taxes are regressive, so fall much heavier on lower incomes, and that precentage is padded with corporate income taxes, which the CBO just adds on as paid income tax, distributed according to income, so the highest incomes get the bulk of the padding.

    Also, the top 1% is made of up a lot (90%) of fairly regular folk making under a $1 million, while the top 1/10 of 1% earn half of the income of the top 1%, 17% of all income, they pay about 11% of the total federal taxes.



    Thanks for being my straight man!
    Whine and wriggle all you want, the fact remains that they pay at least their share.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Good. And they're still rich. I'll bet you that not one of them is worried over how to pay next months rent or mortgage. What we need to examine is the impact of taxes on people at the top 1% and the rest of the people. Anybody at the top 1% isn't getting a weekly paycheck. Their money is coming from stocks and contracted saleries. Romney didn't have a paycheck. It was all in stocks and dividends and capital gains. And he wanted to get rid of Captial Gains tax. Great! That means he'd pay nothing. In effect, he paid less than 13%. Probably nothing since a lot of it was offshore. He could afford to own 4houses and build an elevator for his cars. His sense of desperation is somewhat different from the average person trying to make ends meet every month. He's taken advantage of everything America has to offer, and paid back nothing. He's quick to call for wars, but his own sons aren't going to be involved. They served their country by working on his campaign. Meanwhile my son is a Green Beret with three tours of Iraq and a dead best friend. I have little sympathy for the super rich. They have it just fine.
    Some of the 1% do it via paycheck, and more of their children serve than you might imagine.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #1364
    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    [QUOTE=OpportunityCost;1061508496]
    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    It wasn't the point. The Kitchen Sink was the point. It was the entire subject of this nonsense. Your timeline is an absurd secondary consideration that's irrelevant. If I spill milk and you complain, and then another guy spills milk and you don't, and the only difference is that you and I disagree, and you and the other guy always agree...you are being biased, partisan, and hypocritical. The timing of the spilling makes no difference because the subject is not, nor ever has been the timing. The subject has been the spilt milk. We were never arguing over timing. We were arguing over the Kitchen Sink. That was the topic of discussion.



    Actually it's called hypocrisy and I think you're smart enough to know it. Right now, you're arguing for arguments sake.



    I'm shedding no tears. I'm calling it what it is. Hypocrisy.



    Well. That's good to know. If you can be wrong, then it's possible that you could be wrong about a host of things. You could be wrong about Liberals. You could even be wrong about your own conservatism. In fact, you'd have to admit, that a fallible man cannot create an infallible idea. If he could, we wouldn't have so many versions of Windows would we? They'd have gotten it right the first time. You'd also have to admit that our very own constitution was fallible and had holes in it that needed filling over time to address things that no fallible man could think of.



    I don't think that works. I already admitted long ago, on this very thread that I knew I could be wrong. In fact, it was me that said I know I can be wrong. Can you say as much? How much more gracefully would you like than my own full admission? Conservatism is NOT infallibly correct. It's inherently flawed. The problem is when you accept that ideology you accept it all. And that means that when it comes to the truth or the ideology...the truth loses, because the ideology cannot be wrong. If you ever had any interest in the truth...you'd look at your ideology and ask yourself, what is it based on? When you find out..then ask what that base is based on. You'll find yourself in a dilemma of infinite regress vs your dogma. You'll always be looking for another basis to justify the one that comes next. It's a black hole, and theres no way out of it, except to say I believe it because I believe it, which is circular reasoning. A person that clints to a logical fallacy when he knows that it's a logical fallacy is irrational so why on earth would I or anybody want to accept irrationality as a way of life, or elect irrational people to govern this country?

    A liberal doesn't have that problem, because he's really not committed to any one thing. Except the truth. We aren't big on beliefs in case you haven't noticed. Things change. That's reality, and change is what defines a liberal. He accepts that, and works with reality as it is. Not as he thinks it should be to fit some traditional way of thinking.



    Not really. I don't know about you, but I was around when Goldwater was running. His conservatism comes from Kirk. So does Reagans and Buckleys. But Kirk's comes from Edmund Burke. I'm very well read on Burke, and I can go on for quite a while on his ideas and how they influenced Kirk and the others. Todays conservatives are nothing like those that began the movement. It hasn't evolved. Its devolved. It's turned so far right that it's extremisn is rejected by the people. Today's Tea Party Conservatives are set on destroying the US Government and they happen to control the Republican Party. We don't want that to happen. So...there's your divide. We elect people to govern. The Teaparty Republicans have no interest in governing. The hate the government and want to bring it down. We aren't going to let that happen.

    As for the picture of Sharpton, did you not notice that sig on the bottom? Ya know...claiming that somebody is playing the "race card" when the other person is employing racist motives is bogus. Are you suggesting that racism is all gone in America??



    Yawn. Is there cliff notes for this diatribe?

    It looks like a subtle and not so subtle attempt at manipulation, both historical and on a more personal level. I'm conservative and I don't hate minorities. So either you're engaging in sweeping generalizations or you're wrong. I'm not portraying Obama as anything other than part of the corrupt Chicago political scene. You posit these sweeping theories but the problem would be, I didn't say or portray that. It's curious, most of your political discussion seems to focus on the issue of race. Mine doesn't. Funny.

    Liberal investment into the power structure of government is extensive and its goals continually press towards the accumulation of power. Power corrupts, so why would we keep giving more to government? Its already corrupt.

    Last line: Hit the triangle and go for it. Commenting that I will not be told what to post by you isn't baiting its asserting I do not care for you to make attempts to control the content of my posts.

    It looks like a subtle and not so subtle attempt at manipulation, both historical and on a more personal level
    Then you should be able to tell me how and what it is that's been manipulated...both historical and a more personal level. Specifically. Can you?

    I'm conservative and I don't hate minorities.
    But your ideology and the Party you vote for...does. There's a reason why blacks voted over 90% for Dems. Latino's at 72%. Gays at 98%, Women at about 60%. I'm not saying that you do. I just have to ask why you would align yourself with a party that is quite open about their views on minorities? Do you somehow think that these people can't grasp the policies put forth by Republicans and Conservatives and how they impact lives in a very targeted way?

    I'm not portraying Obama as anything other than part of the corrupt Chicago political scene
    Our entire political system seems to be corrupt. Have you ever lived in the South? What you're implying here is that because Obama is part of the Chicago political scene, and that scene is corrupt. Obama is corrupt. How many ways do you want to say the same thing? You're making a broad sweeping generalization.

    Chicago's political scene is corrupt
    Obama is part of the Chicago political scene
    Therefore: Obama is corrupt.

    The problem here is that while the scene may be corrupt, you cannot lump every politician into that, assuming that they participate in that corruption. Some could be reformers. We have a history of such a thing. Some may even be community organizers who try to fight that corruption.

    You posit these sweeping theories but the problem would be, I didn't say or portray that.
    You'll need to be more specific than saying, "I didn't say or portray that". What is "That"??

    It's curious, most of your political discussion seems to focus on the issue of race. Mine doesn't. Funny.
    Shouldn't be curious at all. Conservatism has a long history of race issues, and they still remain, whether you bring them up or not.

    Liberal investment into the power structure of government is extensive and its goals continually press towards the accumulation of power.
    And conservatives don't do that do they? You know of course that you're voicing a biased opinion since you call yourself a conservative. You also go to the word; "Extensive" which is vague. It's like when you call for "smaller government". How small? What size exactly do you mean? What would be small according you? Also that the liberal is about the accumulation of power. Sounds just like a talking point. Who gave it to you?

    Dick Cheney argued for a Unitary Executive giving more power to the Executive. Karl Rove said he wanted a perpetual Republican Majority. And you're going to tell me who's about the accumulation of power? How do you justify telling me about your absolutist view of who's trying to grab power in light of your own conservatives attempts to do that very thing?

    Power corrupts, so why would we keep giving more to government? Its already corrupt.
    Well, that leaves me with a couple options. Join the TeaParty and take down the entire government of the United States, and it'll be every man for himself. OR...I could choose between the lesser of the other two "evils". Well, I'm not into taking down the US Government. So that's out. That leaves the Liberal Dems or the Conservative Pubs. Based on what I've seen, I'll go with the Dems. I don't agree with Social Darwinism. And the Dems are more in line with my own views.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

  5. #1365
    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Still waiting for you to explain how Obama economic policies pay for the 16.6 trillion dollar debt, put 22+ million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers back to work, reduce the record numbers on food stamps, and create strong economic growth, not the meager growth now? You seem to support the entitlement society and social justice of Obama regardless of the fact that it works no where else in the world especially a country like this built on free enterprise and capitalism.

    What I responded to was your question over WHY we have a progessive taxation. These are the words of the Conservatives own guy. Adam Smith. The Wealth of Nation.

    Do you have your answer now?
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

  6. #1366
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    What I responded to was your question over WHY we have a progessive taxation. These are the words of the Conservatives own guy. Adam Smith. The Wealth of Nation.

    Do you have your answer now?
    Of course not.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Still waiting for you to explain how Obama economic policies pay for the 16.6 trillion dollar debt, put 22+ million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers back to work, reduce the record numbers on food stamps, and create strong economic growth, not the meager growth now? You seem to support the entitlement society and social justice of Obama regardless of the fact that it works no where else in the world especially a country like this built on free enterprise and capitalism.

    You displayed your hatred for Obama a long while back. I told you then, I have zero respect for anything you post. In fact, I'd put you completely out of my mind as a legitimate poster. Now I remember. I'm really not interested in what you have to say. You're a person that's really filled with hate, and I find that pretty sick.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

  8. #1368
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    You displayed your hatred for Obama a long while back. I told you then, I have zero respect for anything you post. In fact, I'd put you completely out of my mind as a legitimate poster. Now I remember. I'm really not interested in what you have to say. You're a person that's really filled with hate, and I find that pretty sick.

    Wow Adagio you are still going at it on this thread? I gave up on this thread a while back after the mud storm upgraded to a worse kind of storm. And I thought you would find my quote from megatron funny.

  9. #1369
    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, Republicans bought into the 'skewed poll' theory more than they should have that's for sure. Doesn't mean that wasn't the case, but too much emphasis was placed on that.



    Well look at that will ya? Aren't you the slick bomb thrower? Way to call me a racist without actually calling me a racist....



    Nah, unless of course you are saying that you personally know each and every Obama voter? Is that what you are saying dude? There are many reasons for the vote landing the way it did, and some of it may have been that they don't like anything conservative, but a lot more than that is needed to win the Presidency. Maybe that is you projecting why you voted for Obama? Are you one of those haters that would like to see one party in the US? eh? Is that your bag man? You a communist?



    don't give me that pap....The market is artificially propped up with fiat currency, that many companies are sitting on because Obama's track record with business is to slap them with one hand, and he pat's their back with the other....They don't trust the Marxist.



    Tradition is important. But I wouldn't expect you to understand unless it is something you can point to as a tactic.



    Ah, strike a nerve? You obviously do, otherwise why mention it?



    Nope, doesn't work that way...You have a constitution to deal with...You don't like this country, may I suggest Venezuela? I hear it is nice this time of year.



    Absolutely.



    Hate him? Nah...That's a strong emotion. I don't even know him personally...What I dislike are his policies, and his method of governance. But hate him? You don't know what you're talking about.



    Yes, and he has taken to the next level, with his own twist of contempt.



    Again you are misreading it. Maybe because you are applying the level of hatred you held for GW Bush, and projecting it onto your political opponent.



    Because sheep are easily led, especially when you have almost the entire media machine lying for you.



    You know, just because you are redundant, doesn't make your false proclamation any more true.



    You know, that is the 5th time you have used some form of 'hate' in this post alone? Sounds like a phobia to me.



    When in doubt, reach into the cliche grab bag eh?



    Recovery? You call this a recovery? That's a good one!



    Well, isn't that the typical tin pot authoritarian response....Despite your lengthy responses, you really don't bring much to the table, outside the usual blather do you?

    Well look at that will ya? Aren't you the slick bomb thrower? Way to call me a racist without actually calling me a racist
    "couldn't quite believe that the people could be so down right stupid as to re elect such an empty suit, anti capitalist, anti traditional American president that had really done little to improve this country, and in fact divided it more, if that was even possible after the stink liberals made the entire Bush terms..." Well..certainly no bombs there. And after that, you call me...the "slick bomb thrower" for saying, "and your charactorization of the people an the president they elected is noted."

    Nah, unless of course you are saying that you personally know each and every Obama voter? Is that what you are saying dude?
    Nope. what I'm saying is that you lost 93% of the Black vote, 72% of the Latino vote, 70 % of the Asian vote, 98% of the Gay vote, and about 60% of the womens vote. another 60% of the youth vote....DUDE. To these tired eyes, that tells me they don't like you or your policies. The rest of your post is nonsense and personal attacks.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

  10. #1370
    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You seem to like to attempt a $10 answer to a $2 assertion...Listen if I feel I need you to drop some knowledge on me, I'll take a Community collage course, k?

    You could use one. Probably several.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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